Time for BB coaching change should be about 3-4 weeks!!

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Jul 25, 2018
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What good are high school All-Americans if you can't coach them?

This is no longer high school. This is a top division with many, many top coaches that also have very good, former high school players.
So, just because he's 5 star doesn't mean he's going to continue to grow into that 1% of players that go to the NBA.
I just have not see enough out of Coach Boynton to prove that he can develop high school players into NBA players.
I'm not calling for his head at the this point, but I am looking around the tool shed for that axe.
National signee rankings under Coach Boynton:
Kentravious Jones - #357
Zack Dawson - #125
Isaac Likekely - #156
Yor Anei - #267
Duncan Demuth - #330
Maurice Calloo - #340
Marcus Watson - #88
Avery Anderson - #122
Chris Harris - #128
Kalib Boone - #139
Keylan Boone - #375
Cade Cunningham - #2
Rondel Walker - #92
Montreal Pena - #333
Average signee ranking: #204

I'm not going to list all of the high school signees under Coach Ford, but our average ranking during that era was #147.

I'm tired of hearing the "lack of talent" excuse. There are only 3 players on the roster that Coach Boynton didn't recruit. They're all starting, and they're just as highly rated as the average player he's brought in. Our current coaching staff should shoulder the majority of the blame if our talent level isn't where it needs to be.

Everyone talks about how great of a recruiter Coach Boynton is, but much of that is centered around Cade Cunningham. CC was a big time commit, but he's an anomaly since we hired his brother to get him. I think it's fair to ask the question of how good of a recruiter HCMB really is, especially considering all of the defections.

/Rant. I support Coach Boynton and his program, but I'm just frustrated and worried about the future. Go Pokes!
Well said, you captured my angst quite well there, & quantified it a whole lot better than I could.

I get the excitement over Cunningham, & I don't want a revolving door of coaches, but damn, it's like nobody remembers the Ford era recruiting & the results that followed.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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Boynton did not possess the recruiting acumen when he first got the job. He was just grabbing guys the spring he first got the job. Ice and Yor were solid gets. He's now been building relationships and working on guys, so I think his recruiting is getting better. It's hard to get top 200 kids late in the year. So, his recruiting is improving every year. I think he needs to keep signing top 50-150 kids. But yes, he needs to develop them and coach them up. He's also had some young talented kids make some bad decisions and that stunted things a bit. My biggest disappointment this year was not playing the freshmen more in non-conference and not playing a more free-flowing offense with the young athletes. We finally started playing some of them Wednesday night, and now they can get their feet wet and start developing.

He's not getting fired after this year. Next year will be very telling. Every player will have been someone MB brought in. Many of the players will have had multiple years under his coaching. And he will finally have a player that can go get a bucket when everything breaks down. We haven't had a guy like that since Evans.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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And 5 of 11 of his recruits are no longer here. Not good folks. That kind of retention is not acceptable.
It's a major problem that blind supporters just can't or won't really acknowledge. They just chalk it up to kids being kids. But at some point there's a clear trend, and it can't be allowed to perpetuate, one way or another.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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Player retention was a major problem early on during the Ford era as well. He lost 9 of the first 12 players he brought to campus from his first 2 classes. His retention got better after that though. Hopefully we'll see the same thing with Coach Boynton.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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National signee rankings under Coach Boynton:
Kentravious Jones - #357
Zack Dawson - #125
Isaac Likekely - #156
Yor Anei - #267
Duncan Demuth - #330
Maurice Calloo - #340
Marcus Watson - #88
Avery Anderson - #122
Chris Harris - #128
Kalib Boone - #139
Keylan Boone - #375
Cade Cunningham - #2
Rondel Walker - #92
Montreal Pena - #333
Average signee ranking: #204

I'm not going to list all of the high school signees under Coach Ford, but our average ranking during that era was #147.

I'm tired of hearing the "lack of talent" excuse. There are only 3 players on the roster that Coach Boynton didn't recruit. They're all starting, and they're just as highly rated as the average player he's brought in. Our current coaching staff should shoulder the majority of the blame if our talent level isn't where it needs to be.

Everyone talks about how great of a recruiter Coach Boynton is, but much of that is centered around Cade Cunningham. CC was a big time commit, but he's an anomaly since we hired his brother to get him. I think it's fair to ask the question of how good of a recruiter HCMB really is, especially considering all of the defections.

/Rant. I support Coach Boynton and his program, but I'm just frustrated and worried about the future. Go Pokes!
Avg Ranking per Class

2017 - 241
2018 - 273
2019 - 170
2020 - 142

I see a good trend in regards to recruiting, the biggest problem isn't the rankings. The problem that Boynton has and Ford as well was keeping his recruits here for 4 years. How are you supposed to build a team when you are constantly refilling your roster with new and young players. Unfortunately our seniors are not very good but if we can hold on to all our sophomore and freshman class, we will have a solid group in two years. That is when Boynton will have to show whether he can coach or not. I wouldnt judge him on a bunch of freshman and sophomores and some very average seniors.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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Avg Ranking per Class

2017 - 241
2018 - 273
2019 - 170
2020 - 142

I see a good trend in regards to recruiting, the biggest problem isn't the rankings. The problem that Boynton has and Ford as well was keeping his recruits here for 4 years. How are you supposed to build a team when you are constantly refilling your roster with new and young players. Unfortunately our seniors are not very good but if we can hold on to all our sophomore and freshman class, we will have a solid group in two years. That is when Boynton will have to show whether he can coach or not. I wouldnt judge him on a bunch of freshman and sophomores and some very average seniors.
Lindy and Cam are very good players. They just arent being used in a way that maximizes their strengths. Lindy regularly being used almost like a point guard or literally as a point guard, and Cam mostly playing away from the basket. Dziagwa would obviously be a role player on most teams and would only be used in situations where they need long range shooting.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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Lindy and Cam are very good players. They just arent being used in a way that maximizes their strengths. Lindy regularly being used almost like a point guard or literally as a point guard, and Cam mostly playing away from the basket. Dziagwa would obviously be a role player on most teams and would only be used in situations where they need long range shooting.
Well thats your opinion but I havent seen any improvement from him at all from last year. He is slow, dribbles too much and turns the ball over a lot. Not something that a senior should be doing. Cam is very athletic but he is not a great basketball player, he also hasnt improved over the last two years. Dziagwa is a 3 point shooter that should play 10 to 15 minutes a game and he should be running his defender all over the place looking for open shots. He should not be starting.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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Avg Ranking per Class

2017 - 241
2018 - 273
2019 - 170
2020 - 142

I see a good trend in regards to recruiting, the biggest problem isn't the rankings. The problem that Boynton has and Ford as well was keeping his recruits here for 4 years. How are you supposed to build a team when you are constantly refilling your roster with new and young players. Unfortunately our seniors are not very good but if we can hold on to all our sophomore and freshman class, we will have a solid group in two years. That is when Boynton will have to show whether he can coach or not. I wouldnt judge him on a bunch of freshman and sophomores and some very average seniors.
Last year's class isn't ranked quite that high because I didn't list Hidde Roessink. He was unranked and outside the top 500, so I didn't really know how to factor him into the average.

This year's class looks really good so far, but we still have a few spots left to fill. Hopefully we'll be able to land Thor & Moncrieffe to round it out. It would probably help if we could start winning some games.

Recruiting does seem to be trending in a better direction though. Last years class seems pretty talented. Hopefully they'll stick together and realize their potential.

I agree with you, roster retention is really important moving forward. The revolving door has to stop. It doesn't matter how talented your recruits are if they end up playing for someone else.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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Last year's class isn't ranked quite that high because I didn't list Hidde Roessink. He was unranked and outside the top 500, so I didn't really know how to factor him into the average.

This year's class looks really good so far, but we still have a few spots left to fill. Hopefully we'll be able to land Thor & Moncrieffe to round it out. It would probably help if we could start winning some games.

Recruiting does seem to be trending in a better direction though. Last years class seems pretty talented. Hopefully they'll stick together and realize their potential.

I agree with you, roster retention is really important moving forward. The revolving door has to stop. It doesn't matter how talented your recruits are if they're constantly leaving.
Yeah i didn't factor Hidde in that but I think he was a good find. He should not be playing yet but it doesn't seem like we have a choice at times. If he continues to improve, he should be a solid 4 for us in a couple years.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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Lindy and Cam are very good players. They just arent being used in a way that maximizes their strengths. Lindy regularly being used almost like a point guard or literally as a point guard, and Cam mostly playing away from the basket. Dziagwa would obviously be a role player on most teams and would only be used in situations where they need long range shooting.
Think the kids are great, am proud of them and hope they win a lot of games, but none are "very good".

Lindy has the heart of a warrior but has overt limitations. He does many things well, just nothing great. His greatest asset now has to be that of a leader and mentor.

Cam. Well, I have to say I am disappointed in his play this year. He had the physique and style such he could have been a Blake Griffin clone but it is just not turning out that way. I really wish he would use his physical talent around the paint more. Want to shoot outside from time to time....cool. Surprise the defender. But he could be a monster in the paint if he would stay down there.

Dizzy. Again, the heart is clearly there even though he looks distant most of the time. He is a streak shooter an nothing else, which is fine, but Boynton has to adapt to that. Not Dizzy's fault he is being asked to do other things that he clearly struggles with.
 

CPTNQUIRK

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Nov 20, 2006
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Boynton did not possess the recruiting acumen when he first got the job. He was just grabbing guys the spring he first got the job. Ice and Yor were solid gets. He's now been building relationships and working on guys, so I think his recruiting is getting better. It's hard to get top 200 kids late in the year. So, his recruiting is improving every year. I think he needs to keep signing top 50-150 kids. But yes, he needs to develop them and coach them up. He's also had some young talented kids make some bad decisions and that stunted things a bit. My biggest disappointment this year was not playing the freshmen more in non-conference and not playing a more free-flowing offense with the young athletes. We finally started playing some of them Wednesday night, and now they can get their feet wet and start developing.

He's not getting fired after this year. Next year will be very telling. Every player will have been someone MB brought in. Many of the players will have had multiple years under his coaching. And he will finally have a player that can go get a bucket when everything breaks down. We haven't had a guy like that since Evans.
Best post of this thread. ^^^^^^
 
Feb 18, 2009
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I see sets being called by him, I saw him and other coaches talking to players in timeouts. Coaching is happening.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
‘Talking’ to players isn’t coaching. But, that’s a different topic. Let’s pretend that what you see is the coaching I am referring to. Players either aren’t receiving it or it’s a bad message. Based on recent results, possible it’s both.

I maintain we have a talent issue right now not a coaching issue. My biggest concern is if it’s both. I will shut up and blindly support if I start to see something different strategically. Lineups, player combinations, tempo, full court press, multiple zone looks as we don’t have enough guys that can play true man to man, etc.

I thought he was going to do it against Texas, then he rolled out that same starting 5 at halftime. Once we got down 10 the game was over. 10 points is just over 3 possessions in basketball and his teams are almost guaranteed to be out of the game at that point. That’s what I want to see change.
 

MustangPokeFan

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That has to be one of the stupidest ideas yet. Why give up one almost certain McD All American and another nominee as well as another solid big man.? We have a bunch of freshmen. Four freshmen scored as many points in less time as four starters did last night. The seniors will be gone next year. The team is young, needs conditioning, will have some great new faces next year, Likekele hasn't totally recovered and here you are spouting off a bunch of half baked, senseless, short-sighted, harebrained, foolish plans to totally sink the ship. Go home and take a nap.
What good are high school All-Americans if you can't coach them?

This is no longer high school. This is a top division with many, many top coaches that also have very good, former high school players.
So, just because he's 5 star doesn't mean he's going to continue to grow into that 1% of players that go to the NBA.
I just have not see enough out of Coach Boynton to prove that he can develop high school players into NBA players.
I'm not calling for his head at the this point, but I am looking around the tool shed for that axe.
You’re a freakin internet blogger. What you, I or anyone else on here say is nothing but meaningless bleating of sheep. Fortunately our opinions have no bearing on Boynton’s longevity. You don’t have the power to call on a pizza, much less somebody’s head. Come away from the ledge.....
 
Oct 30, 2007
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Baylor under Scott Drew....



I bet they had fans calling for him to be fired after his 3rd year too. It takes time to turn around a program.
A little perspective is needed for this comparison. Baylor was a terrible basketball program when they hired Scott Drew. They hadn't made the NCAA tournament since the mid 80's, and they had only made the NCAA tournament 4 times in the history of their program. Not only that, they were fresh off the Dave Bliss scandal. Their roster was blown up, and they had significant NCAA penalties to deal with.

Scott Drew inherited a terrible program that had been recently decimated by scandal. Mike Boynton inherited a program that had been to the NCAA tournament 4 of the previous 5 years.
 
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Chairman of the Board

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A little perspective is needed for this comparison. Baylor was a terrible basketball program when they hired Scott Drew. They hadn't made the NCAA tournament since the mid 80's, and they had only made the NCAA tournament 4 times in the history of their program. Not only that, they were fresh off the Dave Bliss scandal. Their roster was blown up, and they had significant NCAA penalties to deal with.

Scott Drew inherited a terrible program that had been recently decimated by scandal. Mike Boynton inherited a program that had been to the NCAA tournament 4 of the previous 5 years. Despite all of his hardships at Baylor, Drew was 53-30 after his first 3 seasons. (Boynton is currently 42-43.)
Also, the landscape of college basketball has changed drastically since Drew started at Baylor. With new transfer rules, some teams have turned it around overnight. College basketball isn't played the same way, either. It's watered down. Lots of opportunities for well coached teams to have success.

There's just not a valid excuse for this team being as bad as it is. That said, I think HCMB needs through the 2021 season before possibly being dismissed.
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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A little perspective is needed for this comparison. Baylor was a terrible basketball program when they hired Scott Drew. They hadn't made the NCAA tournament since the mid 80's, and they had only made the NCAA tournament 4 times in the history of their program. Not only that, they were fresh off the Dave Bliss scandal. Their roster was blown up, and they had significant NCAA penalties to deal with.

Scott Drew inherited a terrible program that had been recently decimated by scandal. Mike Boynton inherited a program that had been to the NCAA tournament 4 of the previous 5 years. Despite all of his hardships at Baylor, Drew was 53-30 after his first 3 seasons. (Boynton is currently 42-43.)
Stop it with the logic, lol.

Seriously, anyone who compares Boynton taking over our program to Drew taking over Baylor’s program is grasping at straws to defend Boynton. It’s kind of like a few in here who were calling out the “haters” during halftime today. Some people on this board just don’t get it. I don’t mean this as a negative toward Boynton, but Bozo the Clown could be our coach and some would still defend 3 straight unsuccessful seasons.