Underwood to Illinois per multiple sources

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wrenhal

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1) Holder paid Underwood a respectable salary laden with incentives based on the fact he was over 50 and had never (head) coached at the D1 level.

2) Timing is way off. None of this transpired during the season, and contract negotiations should NOT be done during the season, especially the first season and a season that was not remarkable in any way, shape or form.

3) Float? Hell no. He pursued them and played both hands until one was not available any more. I wonder if UM questioned his character when going the way they did.

4) Guess you are not up to speed. Holder did NOT give him a lowball. More than doubled his salary and doubled his per-year automatic increases. His offer was more than reasonable for someone with his (Underwood's) track record.

5) Emergency meeting? Wow, pulled that out of a hat. But regardless, the meeting was precipitated by Underwood telling Holder he wanted $2.9, and Holder countering with $2.2. Underwood's mind was made up well before then.

6) This is all on Underwood. Yes, Holder was probably shocked because Underwood spent the last year proclaiming the virtues of being at OSU and they were in the middle of Underwood-initiated contract negotiations.....less than a year after being hired.

Your hatred for Holder is palpable.
Re: #2. If any talks by anybody occurred before the NCAA game then it was during the season.

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Sep 23, 2010
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Lol...If Holder gave Underwood 6yr, 3million a year, then Evans leaves and we go below .500 in league and go to the NIT. Then what? Holder's an idiot for giving out the contract at this time next year. Guy can't win in this situation.
 

Cimarron

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Lol...If Holder gave Underwood 6yr, 3million a year, then Evans leaves and we go below .500 in league and go to the NIT. Then what? Holder's an idiot for giving out the contract at this time next year. Guy can't win in this situation.
That's what it's going to take for the coach most fans want at OSU basketball. Outside of DG, look at the names tossed around and those guys will demand as a minimum that sort of a contract.

Underwood bailed OSU out big time with his contract and the position OSU was in with Fords contract. He deserved some appreciation for that. It was a win/win for both Underwood and OSU. It gave Underwood the shot he needed to show his skills at a P5 school.

When he did show those skills and brought back the rowdy in GIA he suddenly became a coach that demanded that sort of a salary if you wanted to keep him.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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No, it wasn't. It was about Holder bluffing and getting burned by a guy who wasn't going to put up with games. Are you related to the Holders or something?
Really? Giving a guy double his salary and double the yearly automatic increases is about him wanting more for himself?
Never met the man in my life, but I am quite adept at seeing Underwood for what he is, and the situation for what it is.
 
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So moneywise, things are very different now than in 2016. Last year we had to pay off the $3.9m to TF plus the $1m to underwood.

Now we no longer owe anything to Ford, ticket revenue was strong during the past season, and most importantly, Illinois has to pay us $3m for taking our coach. So we can now afford to go pay someone a lot more than we could 12 months ago.
 
Sep 6, 2012
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The sky is not falling coaching wise. It may be player wise, we may lose recruits, have transfers and Jawun may go pro.

All of that said, Underwood was in way over his head. I emailed back and forth with the man several times. We talked about what he should be doing offensively. It was clear there that man was insanely stubborn. The 0-6 stretch was not because of the players it was completely on him. He could not adapt to the structure of this team. Danny Henderson saved this team and final convinced Underwood to change our defensive scheme. Underwood had to be convinced over and over again. He was so stubborn he wanted to stay with the up the line and down the line strategy no matter what even after we won.

The facts:
1: He had to be convinced to change a defensive scheme that was horribly flawed for his current team. It took him a painful 0-6 conference skid to change it.
2: My conversations with him were on how horribly he used Forte in the middle part of the season. The man had zero understanding how to use Forte and Juwan together.
3: 1-7 against the top 4 teams in our conference.
4- WVU game philosophy first time around, would not listen to his ast. coaches about the way to beat them. He was convinced slowing the pace of the game after made baskets was the right thing to do. We beat them the second time because coaches made him stop being so stubborn. He let his team inbound the ball when the press was not set and when it was ran press breakers.
5- Every single elite offensive team besides WS he lost to.

There a numerous other times this team under performed because of the coach. His leaving may have screwed us player wise but honestly he wasn't a great coach. If you believe he is, then you are hanging on the he is a Shaka Smart type guy limp, a coach who must have his perfect guys or else he is a fish out of water. I can see that point but he isn't Bill Self and not worth top 10 money in NCAA.
 

RutherfordFan

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If you have to walk on eggshells with an employee, when they are leveraging you for a raise before the job is even finished. You would be in a tough negotiating stance.

If underwood could say his peace why couldn't holder explain his thoughts. You pay underwood 3 mil and what does Gundy get ? Oh yeah he hasn't signed his contract yet. Would you rather retain gundy or underwood. It's a balancing act that Holder has to maintain. I don't envy that at all.

22 Oklahoma State Big 12 Mike Gundy $3,775,000 -- $3,775,000 $550,000 $100,000 $3,283,999
per USA today in Oct 2016

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It's not a balancing act. We have the money. Holder needs to pony up. Football and basketball are our priorities- You pony up for those . That and baseball some but much smaller salary and degree. Holder just has to stop the penny penching. Heck I guarantee you the bigger crowds gave him enough money to do it. We have the money. Holder just doesn't want to spend it. You risk losing other coaches and programs not football and men's basketball. That's what people care about. That and baseball and wresling. Everyone else you give it scraps of what you have left if finances are an issue.

I don't think we have to give scraps cuz we have more than that but just an example.
 
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It is and you may not want to believe that it is. We barely have a surplus. We might just surplus because holder gives his salary back to the university.
 
Mar 19, 2017
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Not here.
It's not a balancing act. We have the money. Holder needs to pony up. Football and basketball are our priorities- You pony up for those . That and baseball some but much smaller salary and degree. Holder just has to stop the penny penching. Heck I guarantee you the bigger crowds gave him enough money to do it. We have the money. Holder just doesn't want to spend it. You risk losing other coaches and programs not football and men's basketball. That's what people care about. That and baseball and wresling. Everyone else you give it scraps of what you have left if finances are an issue.

I don't think we have to give scraps cuz we have more than that but just an example.
Giving in to a first year coach's demands after he produces a 'meh' season at best sets a terrible precedent for future negotiations with your entire staff.

Just because football and basketball are our priorities doesn't mean that we need to reward Underwood for producing an average season. Plus, if your coach is already flirting with other jobs before he's even finished his first season, well...maybe he's not the guy that you want for the long term anyway. It sounds like a headache and a guy who would be near impossible to retain for the long term.

If you want to reward your coach's loyalty and performance, you invest it into guys like Holliday and Gundy and Smith who have performed at a high level and for a length of time, not the first year coach who threatens to leave if he doesn't get a massive pay bump.
 
Aug 21, 2009
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We have a lot of fans around here that want to fire a guy that gives his salary back to the university because he didn't overpay a guy that would leave without even talking to the players or give us a chance to counter offer.

BU will fail at ILL and I'm going to love watching it.
 
Nov 28, 2008
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What some of you are forgetting about is that he had an offer in hand for $3 million per. Once that happened the market is set. Lowballing bullshit tactics wouldn't work even if that hadn't happened, but once it did you either match it or you shake hands and walk away. IMHO Holder should have matched it, but that is obviously debatable.

By not doing it he is basically conceding that we can't compete in the world of big time college basketball. Granted there is no good outcome for Holder, but some how he always finds a way to make a bad situation worse.
Did Underwood come back with a counteroffer? If not, then it's just chatter to talk about low-balling.

It's not like he was holding out for better facilities, salary for his assistants or the like. He was after Final 4 money for himself.

He got it from the Illini. Maybe they made the right call, I dunno. Time will tell.

But Underwood was not going to get F4 $$ money at OSU till he does something to deserves it. It just ain't happening...
 
Sep 6, 2012
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We have a lot of fans around here that want to fire a guy that gives his salary back to the university because he didn't overpay a guy that would leave without even talking to the players or give us a chance to counter offer.

BU will fail at ILL and I'm going to love watching it.
Exactly this , is Holder the most personable. No, but hes not a azz either. I have talked to him many times. He the jerk took my cell during the storm delay of the TU game years ago you know he did not even charge it back. evil I tell you
 

RutherfordFan

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Giving in to a first year coach's demands after he produces a 'meh' season at best sets a terrible precedent for future negotiations with your entire staff.

Just because football and basketball are our priorities doesn't mean that we need to reward Underwood for producing an average season. Plus, if your coach is already flirting with other jobs before he's even finished his first season, well...maybe he's not the guy that you want for the long term anyway. It sounds like a headache and a guy who would be near impossible to retain for the long term.

If you want to reward your coach's loyalty and performance, you invest it into guys like Holliday and Gundy and Smith who have performed at a high level and for a length of time, not the first year coach who threatens to leave if he doesn't get a massive pay bump.
all drivel. Big 12 average was a reasonable demand. Most of what I'm mad at Holder for has zero to do with money offered. It's Holder's complete lack of people skills. Holder has too big of an ego for an A.D. It doesn't work. He's an ass.
 
Nov 28, 2008
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No. Big12 average has a skew due to Self who is clearly an outlier. $2.5MM is basically the average after Self is eliminated (for 6 schools anyway, not TCU no OSU) and that would be reasonable and probably attainable if Underwood would have negotiated in good faith. He skipped a meeting and walked into the follow-on with a resignation letter without even convening his team first. The Illini can have him. How long is he going to be there? 1 year? 2?
 
Aug 21, 2009
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all drivel. Big 12 average was a reasonable demand. Most of what I'm mad at Holder for has zero to do with money offered. It's Holder's complete lack of people skills. Holder has too big of an ego for an A.D. It doesn't work. He's an ass.
You basing that on a Trammel article and the word of Brad Underwood or do you have other information regarding this particular situation?
 
Mar 19, 2017
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Not here.
all drivel. Big 12 average was a reasonable demand. Most of what I'm mad at Holder for has zero to do with money offered. It's Holder's complete lack of people skills. Holder has too big of an ego for an A.D. It doesn't work. He's an ass.
I don't know how I feel about Holder.

However, I do know how I feel about Underwood. I'm glad that we didn't pay the man because it's become pretty clear that his public persona was an act and not genuine. If he hadn't left after this season, he would have left soon after that.

You seem like a very angry poster. I hope that whatever is making you angry is resolved, for your benefit.
 

pennpoke

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Feb 16, 2012
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Can we just put ourselves in Holder's shoes for a moment? How would you respond when your coach comes to you with requests to work huge increases in his contract for next year, finding out that he has been working back-door offers from Missouri and Illinois before the first season is over, with average overall results and mediocre defenses against Iowa State and Kansas to end the year? While we should be getting ready for a tourney game?

I would be something less than thrilled and ready to sign over to whatever he's asking at that moment.
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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Really? Giving a guy double his salary and double the yearly automatic increases is about him wanting more for himself?
Never met the man in my life, but I am quite adept at seeing Underwood for what he is, and the situation for what it is.
It is amazing how people continue to defend Holder in this after multiple missteps of this magnitude. Most people would have been fired after a mistake like the Ford debacle. I would have. Boone's money is the ONLY reason Holder got this job, and the ONLY reason he still has it. You people defending him like its some noble cause is just dumb. He's displayed incompetence multiple times already.
 
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In my mind Illinois is overpaying for a guy that is still an unproven commodity at the major conference level. After seeing the '16-'17 season play out I was cautiously optimistic for the future but still not 100% sold on BU. Tripling his salary (if that's what it would have taken to keep him) is out of the question IMO. I realize that losing a coach to a non blue blood is a shot to the collective ego of the fan base and not a good look in general for the program, but I don't think that justifies making an irrational financial decision again. Besides, given what Illinois is paying all-in to get BU, if you upped your offer to $3.0MM what are the odds you end up in a bidding war with Illinois anyways? That's probably a loser as well. I'm not a huge Holder fan, but I'm also not going to beat him up over the rumor and innuendo from Berry Tramel. At the end of the day letting BU walk was probably the right call given what it would have taken to keep him.
 
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