USA...our country/government...good, bad, ugly

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PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
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#1
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it seems people have been upset with the direction of our country for YEARS...and yet, we just sit back and take it...keep the same people in offices (or at least very similar), keep bitching and complaining, but nothing changes/gets done...
Albert Einstein : “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
 

kaboy42

Territorial Marshal
May 2, 2007
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#2
What’s the latest polling numbers on term limits?

I have literally never met anyone that WAS NOT pro-limits.

We have to get rid of and get away from “career politicians”. 8 yrs max to serve the country and then GTFO.
 
May 4, 2011
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#3
What’s the latest polling numbers on term limits?

I have literally never met anyone that WAS NOT pro-limits.

We have to get rid of and get away from “career politicians”. 8 yrs max to serve the country and then GTFO.
Here's one person with mixed feelings on it. Two primary reasons. 1) it presumes that it fixes other problems about politicians being "bought" and I actually think it would potentially make it worse because money, advertising, and/or name recognition become more important in elections without incumbents. For related reasons, it may also worsen polarization because you're constantly running primaries that most often pander to the base. Incumbents can often afford to be a bit more moderate because they hold the advantage in the primary. At a minimum, there's a high likelihood for unintended consequences. 2) institutional knowledge is lost, especially with only six years. Some of the effects of that are easy to see with leadership elections, especially at a national level where no one knows each other, and guiding bills through the full process which takes time to really learn. I'd have less mixed feelings f you make it about limits on consecutive terms, like you can serve six years in the house and 12 in the senate but then have to leave for at least two years after that. I see some benefits, but potential downsides seem to be glossed over. So, while not fully opposed, I have mixed feelings and wouldn't advocate for it either. Now if you magically passed it with other reforms like getting rid of primaries or maybe even some crazier ideas like lottery systems, I'm more on board.
 

cowboyinexile

Have some class
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Jun 29, 2004
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#5
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it seems people have been upset with the direction of our country for YEARS...and yet, we just sit back and take it...keep the same people in offices (or at least very similar), keep bitching and complaining, but nothing changes/gets done...
Albert Einstein : “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
So the last time a majority of the country thought we were heading in the right direction was early in Obamas first term. It was a slim majority but really trending. Then the Republicans invented the tea party and yeah...
 
Sep 22, 2011
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So the last time a majority of the country thought we were heading in the right direction was early in Obamas first term. It was a slim majority but really trending. Then the Republicans invented the tea party and yeah...
How different would this world be if Obama would have delivered single payer healthcare, ended the war on terror, broken up the big banks and punished the architects of the Great Recession.
 

LS1 Z28

Territorial Marshal
Oct 30, 2007
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#7
View attachment 95957
it seems people have been upset with the direction of our country for YEARS...and yet, we just sit back and take it...keep the same people in offices (or at least very similar), keep bitching and complaining, but nothing changes/gets done...
Albert Einstein : “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
My take on the chart:
1. The overall average appears to be roughly 40% positive and 60% negative. There will always be people with victim mentality that blame our country for their own failures. They'll never say that our country is headed in the right direction, so they skew the numbers.
2. It appears sentiment was very poor during the peak of the financial crisis.
3. Sentiment grew stronger as we exited the financial crisis, but it grew worse as people saw how slowly we recovered in the coming years.
4. Eventually we did recover and sentiment got better.
5. I'm not sure why we saw a spike in 2013. I'm probably forgetting something.
6. The first three years of Trump's presidency actually resulted in better sentiment than the majority of Obama's presidency.
7. You see a huge spike as the pandemic starts, then sentiment starts to slowly improve.
8. You see another spike as social unrest breaks out after the George Floyd murder.
9. You see sentiment improve to its best level in years as Biden wins the election, but it quickly reverses as the pandemic doesn't magically disappear and inflation takes hold.

My biggest takeaway from the chart is the fact that people care more about the economy than anything else. Sentiment improved under Trump, despite the fact that most people didn't like him. He probably would've won a second term if it weren't for the pandemic.
 

PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
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#8
There will always be people with victim mentality that blame our country for their own failures. They'll never say that our country is headed in the right direction, so they skew the numbers.
likewise, numbers are skewed when a far right person has a republican in office or vice versa...I agree that when economy is good numbers will be better...do you like the word "sentiment"? LOL you used it ALOT! ha

He probably would've won a second term if it weren't for the pandemic.
you really don't believe this do you?!
 

LS1 Z28

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Oct 30, 2007
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#9
likewise, numbers are skewed when a far right person has a republican in office or vice versa...I agree that when economy is good numbers will be better...do you like the word "sentiment"? LOL you used it ALOT! ha


you really don't believe this do you?!
"Sentiment" is just shorter than typing out "believe the country is headed in the right or wrong direction." I don't really like the word. I'm just lazy. ;)

Trump's approval rating going into the pandemic was 49%. It was 34% when he left office. I think there's a very good chance that he would've won a second term without it.
 

Jostate

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So the last time a majority of the country thought we were heading in the right direction was early in Obamas first term. It was a slim majority but really trending. Then the Republicans invented the tea party and yeah...
What policies did the tea party inspire that you think caused this?
 

PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
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#11
"Sentiment" is just shorter than typing out "believe the country is headed in the right or wrong direction." I don't really like the word. I'm just lazy. ;)

Trump's approval rating going into the pandemic was 49%. It was 34% when he left office. I think there's a very good chance that he would've won a second term without it.
I've seen no poll where he was 49%, but honestly didn't look too hard (realclearpolitics and fivethirtyeight)...I agree to disagree on trump losing because of virus, but I will say he handled it poorly...his main downfall IMO, besides being an arrogant prick (among other things), is he thought his "base" people were enough instead of trying to get others (non trumpsters and far righters) on his side.
 

Jostate

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I've seen no poll where he was 49%, but honestly didn't look too hard (realclearpolitics and fivethirtyeight)...I agree to disagree on trump losing because of virus, but I will say he handled it poorly...his main downfall IMO, besides being an arrogant prick (among other things), is he thought his "base" people were enough instead of trying to get others (non trumpsters and far righters) on his side.
You go back and look at look at the polling pre pandemic and Trump appeared to be a shoe in. I even remember people on here who hated him grudgingly admitting he was headed for re-election. The vid stopped him in 2020 and Jan 6 will keep him out in 2024. That's why his opponents need to make the most of it as they can.
 

PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
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#13
You go back and look at look at the polling pre pandemic and Trump appeared to be a shoe in. I even remember people on here who hated him grudgingly admitting he was headed for re-election. The vid stopped him in 2020 and Jan 6 will keep him out in 2024. That's why his opponents need to make the most of it as they can.
again, I see no poll that shows him that high...but if the vid stopped him (he brought it on himself - the handling of it) and Jan 6 will stop him next (he brought it on himself)...anyways, agree to disagree...
 

steross

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#15
These posts should really be saying "Trump's handling of the pandemic" cost him the election.

A crisis often puts the electorate behind a leader, not against them. Look at Bush with 911.
 
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Jostate

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again, I see no poll that shows him that high...but if the vid stopped him (he brought it on himself - the handling of it) and Jan 6 will stop him next (he brought it on himself)...anyways, agree to disagree...
Some interesting posts from our own site back in this thread. You can sense the mood at the time was Trump was in pretty good shape for re-election. I left out a good post about the Hunter laptop conspiracy, which was a lefty talking point at the time.

https://www.orangepower.com/threads/democratic-iowa-caucus-an-fing-disaster.266170/


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Jostate

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#17
These posts should really be saying "Trump's handling of the pandemic" cost him the election.

A crisis often puts the electorate behind a leader, not against them. Look at Bush with 911.
We could go round and round about this again but that's a little apples and oranges. 911 was a one time intentional attack by an enemy. The vid was an ongoing problem for the whole world with daily opportunities to politicize it. The left blamed Trump so hard they didn't even leave room for anyone having a problem with China being the source and covering it up bad enough to let it spread around the world.

Our death rate was not so out of line with much of Europe for the year 2020. Considering the obesity rate in this country and our stubbornness not to fall in line with government directives, that's really not so bad as we were led to believe. Especially considering Trump was desperately trying weather the event without crushing the economy, which did lead him to underestimate it.
 

steross

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#18
We could go round and round about this again but that's a little apples and oranges. 911 was a one time intentional attack by an enemy. The vid was an ongoing problem for the whole world with daily opportunities to politicize it. The left blamed Trump so hard they didn't even leave room for anyone having a problem with China being the source and covering it up bad enough to let it spread around the world.

Our death rate was not so out of line with much of Europe for the year 2020. Considering the obesity rate in this country and our stubbornness not to fall in line with government directives, that's really not so bad as we were led to believe. Especially considering Trump was desperately trying weather the event without crushing the economy, which did lead him to underestimate it.
I shorthanded "911" but from that was the entire GWOT and Iraq/Afghanistan. The initial pandemic wave was like 911. The ongoing response was like Iraq/Afghanistan. Bush started well then messed up and still got elected.

I won't even respond to your attempts to defend Trump's actions on Covid as any rational look would know he did a poor job in so many ways.

He didn't get reelected because he did a poor job. I really don't see our country getting rid of him for doing a great job just because they in general mad about a virus.
 

PF5

Deputy
Jan 3, 2014
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#19
Some interesting posts from our own site back in this thread. You can sense the mood at the time was Trump was in pretty good shape for re-election. I left out a good post about the Hunter laptop conspiracy, which was a lefty talking point at the time.

https://www.orangepower.com/threads/democratic-iowa-caucus-an-fing-disaster.266170/


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I started this thread cuz I think our country is in bad shape...we need change (state and national govts) I assumed most of us would be on common ground here, our country is nowhere near in 'good shape'...you, for some reason, feel the need to make sure we all know it wasn't/isn't because of trump...duly noted...and sharing some old posts from people on this board does not equate to a national poll...
 

Jostate

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#20
I started this thread cuz I think our country is in bad shape...we need change (state and national govts) I assumed most of us would be on common ground here, our country is nowhere near in 'good shape'...you, for some reason, feel the need to make sure we all know it wasn't/isn't because of trump...duly noted...and sharing some old posts from people on this board does not equate to a national poll...
It's not so easy to find a presidential poll from a specific date in the past, unless that date was right around election time.