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Discussion in 'OSU Sports Forum' started by WrigleyvillePoke, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. okstateguy987

    okstateguy987 Teamo Supremo

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    I also really don't think OSU should have to take every single person who wants to come here, whether they can afford it or not. This is a public education institution, but higher education has to be at least somewhat selective. There's a reason there are numerous community colleges within the State and around the nation; they take on a very large number of students wanting at least a limited form of higher education, and they are fairly cheap.

    Education is a right, but I really do think people should stay within their means when seeking higher education. I might be able to get into Cornell or Stanford, but there is no way I am going to take on the enormous cost. For me, OSU is just right. The same should apply for every other level of education.

    And just for the record, I don't think only the rich deserve the best education. I think the people that can afford it do deserve it. Meaning, if you really, really want to get into Yale or Harvard, you will find someway to create the funds to make it happen. Individuals taking on massive debt has always been a bad idea, since the beginning of time. I think if someone wants to get to that next step, they need to work their way up to it.
  2. Fade

    Fade Wrangler

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    The female physician is certainly at an extreme, but for those with post-graduate degrees it's not at all uncommon to wind up between $50,000 and $150,000 in debt. That's a lot of debt for just about anyone, and contrary to the beliefs of those who came away fine and dandy it's not remotely always about living beyond your means or making poor decisions.

    http://www.finaid.org/loans/
  3. snuffy

    Staff A/V Subscriber snuffy Deep Thoughts.

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    2 questions for docjoctoo:
    1. Are you wanting students to save money or OSU to make better use/not waste what has been given to them? You seemed to have changed horses in mid-stream.
    2. Have you emailed President Hargis about your concerns and asked what OSU has done or is planning to do to save money? I believe the questions you are asking are legitimate, but have you taken them off the message boards and taken them into the real world?
    http://president.okstate.edu/index.php/inside-osu
  4. gbyte

    gbyte Wrangler

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    I think there are several things that can be used to try and help student debt while going to college. Some of them are below but I believe that this "fault" for large debt falls to everybody, not just the student but also their parents, the city, companies, corporate views, and society in general.

    1) Before being able to submit financial aid application student is required to download / watch video talking about other ways to reduce debt, living inside your means, etc. which most will not have any clue on

    2) Having a central list of student-friendly jobs (typically part-time) both on and off campus. Make it a free list to post to and have someone check back on the jobs every week to mark them off when fulfilled

    3) Some sort of education on how student loans is likely to affect their life when they have to repay with the amount they are wanting to take. Since most students have not really been forced to have jobs coming to college most will not want to work or know how to maintain their own money.

    4) Education to parents to help them with their children's spending

    5) Try to educate businesses that are looking for full-time positions that part-time could be more cost effective for their business. Part-time will not need benefits, less pay per hour, and for some jobs it can give the student valuable knowledge and experience

    6) Make it easier for companies to allow interns. I heard from previous managers that it was so hard to get the information at times and to finish requirements that it was why it was never considered for school

    7) Have better career services options for employers. When we posted a job to career services we received VERY few people applying for a web programmer position in the past from campus. The job was only posted in career services campus and never made it outside of the career services list and never made it to the computer science, mis, or other IT related degree fields which will post jobs or have their own list serv for jobs. This greatly reduces the exposure of jobs

    8) Work with City of Stillwater and OSU jointly to have a good source of information to give to any/all companies that would include benefits of using the possible types of jobs from OSU students (full-time, part-time, internships) with all information needed to contact. Simplify the process. With the downturn managers are busier than before and do not want to take more time than what was done in the past.

    9) Have a list of all companies (with contact information) in City of Stillwater available with possible occupations in each and what each company is classified (restaurant, retail, technology, etc.) which can be given to students seeking jobs.
  5. Cobra_PC_Poke

    Cobra_PC_Poke Cowboy

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    Student housing costs and the "need" for a student to have a car should in no way be factored into the cost of education stats. You are going to have to live somewhere whether you are attending school or not. Housing is based more on the free market. Since kids today want their own bathrooms and bedrooms, OSU has supplied the newer-style apartments and suites. There are still options to live in the old dorms for more affordable rates.

    I do agree that students should be given the choice to live where they want, and not be required to stay on campus their first year though. But outside of that caveat, housing costs are not a way for OSU to cut costs, any more than reducing the cost of TV's or PS3's are a valid way to reduce the cost of education.

    Student debt does not necessarily equal cost of education.
  6. docjoctoo

    docjoctoo Cowboy

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    Question 1: I am interested in lowering the total cost of higher education. (Why?-the state is out of money, the student is out of money, and OSU and other Universities are out of money) Students play a major role in this, but Universities must become more efficient using many tools that are now available to them to lower costs without lowering quality.

    Question 2: Yes, I have spoke (without naming names) and written to many top officials at OSU. I am not naive. I have been an academic in higher education. One of my sons is working on his PhD now. I know that Universities are very beaucratic and slow to change. Top business people who have dealt with Universities tell me to give up and that I am just knocking my head against the wall. It’s not just OSU but most other Universities as well. OSU is probably better than most. Change to a more efficient system is coming. It is no longer if, but when and how.
  7. naffigator

    A/V Subscriber naffigator I am SuperKing!

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    This is one of the reasons some of the "elite" institutions are considered elite. They don't necessarily offer a better education but because they are more selective on admissions, they have gained the reputation of being elite.
  8. docjoctoo

    docjoctoo Cowboy

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    To me it is wrong to have a higher education system that saddles a graduate with debt of that maginatude which has to be paid back with post tax dollars. Thats a burden that needs fixing before it destroys part of the reason for the education in the first place. Students are beginning to ask "is a degree really worth the cost?". Last year I saw a two part article in the O'Collegian debating the question: "Is college worth the cost". Soon everyone will be asking this same question.
  9. Cobra_PC_Poke

    Cobra_PC_Poke Cowboy

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    Perhaps this is a question that should be asked more often.

    Lately there have been so many people getting degrees, that it has become an unnecessary prerequisite to most employment. This has led to the degree being worth less than before.

    I see no reason that so many employers should "require" a degree for a position that could easily be filled by someone with no degree.
  10. snuffy

    Staff A/V Subscriber snuffy Deep Thoughts.

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    Your question is a good one. I went to college straight out of HS and did not like it or do well. I spent 12 years working in a job that did not require a degree and it was ok. Once I decided I wanted to do something else I looked at my options and realized getting a degree was not on,y something I needed, but wanted. Straight from HS to college should not be a given for everyone.

    One part of the cost of college that may have been missed is the states part. Part of the reason the cost of an education has gone up is because the state has not keep up it obligation to fund higher education. Funding from the state has been going down for 15 plus years, causing other costs to go up. The state legislator has failed to do its job.
  11. Orangerules

    Orangerules Cowboy

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    Where do you propose they get the dollars to "keep up"?
  12. snuffy

    Staff A/V Subscriber snuffy Deep Thoughts.

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    Stop writing stupid laws that get the state taken to court and spend millions of dollars on only to be thrown out again and again. I don't have a problem with a schools budget being cut when the economy is tight, but the state was taking away funding when we were flying high and bloated with oil money.
  13. CPTNQUIRK

    A/V Subscriber CPTNQUIRK A Legend in His Own Mind

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    Our state legislators have been self serving the last few years by reducing the personal income tax rate so they can make the claim that they reduced taxes in hopes of being re-elected. They can't increase the taxes back to where they used to be without a vote of the people. The legislators have emasculated themselves in that regard. They should have never reduced the taxes. They have resorted to a fee-based system to fund services. Divide and conquer the users of public services is what has happened. I don't have the answers, just these observations.
  14. docjoctoo

    docjoctoo Cowboy

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    "Its a shame that education is often wasted on the young".

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