Question regarding the public reactions to racism

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steross

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#21
In other words, you’re only opinion is other people’s thoughts and opinions are wrong.

FYI - You’re coming off as a complete putz.


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Yea, suggesting that you will get more information talking to people instead of talking about them makes me a complete putz. You already declared what you would think of my opinion so I tell you to go to the source. But, you can't handle that. We both know it. I have not suggested to you to do a single thing I have not already done myself.

At the point you degenerate to name-calling because you've got no actual response I know it is time to go.
Enjoy your silo!
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#23
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Where do you see systemic racism in our society?[/QUOTE]

I hear there is systemic racism embedded in our justice system, education system, corporate job environments, sports leagues, and various other institutions and organizations. While there may be some level of racism contained therein, IMO, the problems the black community experiences in those environments have many root causes which won’t be meaningfully solved by curing any imbedded racism that may exist.


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Sep 29, 2011
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#24
In other words, you’re only opinion is other people’s thoughts and opinions are wrong.

FYI - You’re coming off as a complete putz.


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Yea, suggesting that you will get more information talking to people instead of talking about them makes me a complete putz. You already declared what you would think of my opinion so I tell you to go to the source. But, you can't handle that. We both know it. I have not suggested to you to do a single thing I have not already done myself.

At the point you degenerate to name-calling because you've got no actual response I know it is time to go.
Enjoy your silo!
Asking legitimate questions in the OP is talking about people?

Maybe I’m the putz for thinking you might have something meaningful to add to the discussion.


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Last edited:
May 31, 2007
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#25
Actually, I do think some people fear the police. Some of those with law-breaking intent and those whose misguided parents/teachers/influencers taught them to fear the police. And some of that fear turns into hate.
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I think what you’re talking about is a fear of getting caught. I’ve lived in the inner cities of two of the bigger cities in the US and there is not a fear of police. It’s the exact opposite. Anytime the police show up people come out of the woodwork to yell at, harass, film with their phones, and disrupt the investigation of the police. If there was a fear of police people would hide whenever they show up but the exact opposite happens without fail. The only people I’ve seen fear the police are my white buddies whose hands shake so bad they can’t get their ID out of their wallet when they get pulled over going 10 over the limit. Ha.
 

steross

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#26
Asking legitimate questions in the OP is taking about people?

Maybe I’m the putz for thinking you might have something meaningful to add to the discussion.


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Here is your "legitimate" question:
How does removing statues, renaming buildings, kneeling during the national anthem, creating black organizations/awards/associations, peaceful protests, violent protests, defunding the police, eliminating the police, etc.. going to meaningfully change any perceptions on either side?

Ok, so we are clearly talking sides, it is in YOUR question. If there are two sides and we are not talking ABOUT people then both sides have to be represented.

So, let's ask. Is there anyone on this particular board who feels a personal need to organize or participate in any of these activities because of how "perceived" systemic racism affects you? If so, please speak up and explain what you feel about these things and how systemic racism has affected your life adversely and give a response to his question in your terms.

Ok, as soon as someone responds from that side we will no longer be talking about them we will be talking with them. If that doesn't happen, then continue to enjoy your comfy little snowflake silo!
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#28
Asking legitimate questions in the OP is taking about people?

Maybe I’m the putz for thinking you might have something meaningful to add to the discussion.


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Here is your "legitimate" question:
How does removing statues, renaming buildings, kneeling during the national anthem, creating black organizations/awards/associations, peaceful protests, violent protests, defunding the police, eliminating the police, etc.. going to meaningfully change any perceptions on either side?

Ok, so we are clearly talking sides, it is in YOUR question. If there are two sides and we are not talking ABOUT people then both sides have to be represented.

So, let's ask. Is there anyone on this particular board who feels a personal need to organize or participate in any of these activities because of how "perceived" systemic racism affects you? If so, please speak up and explain what you feel about these things and how systemic racism has affected your life adversely and give a response to his question in your terms.

Ok, as soon as someone responds from that side we will no longer be talking about them we will be talking with them. If that doesn't happen, then continue to enjoy your comfy little snowflake silo!
If I could make any sense out of your post, I’d respond with more than just the following.

Here are the other questions in my OP you fail to address or even recognize:

So what’s the net result? Further division?

How do we change the perceptions (real or imagined) of those that believe in the existence of systemic racism?

How do we change the perceptions of the true racists?


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Mar 11, 2006
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#29
If I could make any sense out of your post, I’d respond with more than just the following.

Here are the other questions in my OP you fail to address or even recognize:

So what’s the net result? Further division?

How do we change the perceptions (real or imagined) of those that believe in the existence of systemic racism?

How do we change the perceptions of the true racists?


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My guess is the reason you seem to be upsetting a couple of posters is that you asked questions that they cannot rationally defend.

Specifically about renaming buildings: I, for one, am fine with renaming of buildings. I don’t have any need to keep the name of Murray Hall. And the group did it the right way. The group neither tore down the name nor vandalized the building. They took their grievance to an authority and that authority made a decision.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#32
If I could make any sense out of your post, I’d respond with more than just the following.

Here are the other questions in my OP you fail to address or even recognize:

So what’s the net result? Further division?

How do we change the perceptions (real or imagined) of those that believe in the existence of systemic racism?

How do we change the perceptions of the true racists?


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My guess is the reason you seem to be upsetting a couple of posters is that you asked questions that they cannot rationally defend.

Specifically about renaming buildings: I, for one, am fine with renaming of buildings. I don’t have any need to keep the name of Murray Hall. And the group did it the right way. The group neither tore down the name nor vandalized the building. They took their grievance to an authority and that authority made a decision.
Yeah, I was trying to seriously elicit the viewpoints of those that find real value in the many forms of protest or need to change things that offend and the reasons therewith.

So much for good intent.


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Sep 29, 2011
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#33
Actually, I do think some people fear the police. Some of those with law-breaking intent and those whose misguided parents/teachers/influencers taught them to fear the police. And some of that fear turns into hate.
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I think what you’re talking about is a fear of getting caught. I’ve lived in the inner cities of two of the bigger cities in the US and there is not a fear of police. It’s the exact opposite. Anytime the police show up people come out of the woodwork to yell at, harass, film with their phones, and disrupt the investigation of the police. If there was a fear of police people would hide whenever they show up but the exact opposite happens without fail. The only people I’ve seen fear the police are my white buddies whose hands shake so bad they can’t get their ID out of their wallet when they get pulled over going 10 over the limit. Ha.
Fair point


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steross

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#34
My guess is the reason you seem to be upsetting a couple of posters is that you asked questions that they cannot rationally defend.

Specifically about renaming buildings: I, for one, am fine with renaming of buildings. I don’t have any need to keep the name of Murray Hall. And the group did it the right way. The group neither tore down the name nor vandalized the building. They took their grievance to an authority and that authority made a decision.
I'm not the least bit upset. All I am saying is he doing the equivalent of asking a bunch of consumers of cable TV that think that the cable TV companies are ripping us off why the price is so damn high while avoiding actually asking the cable TV company what goes into their costs.

So, lets all just sit here in our little consumer group and pat ourselves on the back for knowing that cable TV companies are ripping us off because all of us consumers know it is true. Of course, none of us can defend the cable company since we aren't the cable company so do not know their true costs. And, if you even mention, "Why don't you ask the cable company?" it is met with insults and ridicule.

If that doesn't alter your "guess' then you can enjoy the silo too!
 
Oct 15, 2003
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#36
I am so dang disgusted with this whole false narrative that only whte people are racist, that I can't freaking stand it.

If there is systemic racism (big if) it is not directed only at one race.

None of the BLM narrative is true. None of it.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#37
My guess is the reason you seem to be upsetting a couple of posters is that you asked questions that they cannot rationally defend.

Specifically about renaming buildings: I, for one, am fine with renaming of buildings. I don’t have any need to keep the name of Murray Hall. And the group did it the right way. The group neither tore down the name nor vandalized the building. They took their grievance to an authority and that authority made a decision.
I'm not the least bit upset. All I am saying is he doing the equivalent of asking a bunch of consumers of cable TV that think that the cable TV companies are ripping us off why the price is so damn high while avoiding actually asking the cable TV company what goes into their costs.

So, lets all just sit here in our little consumer group and pat ourselves on the back for knowing that cable TV companies are ripping us off because all of us consumers know it is true. Of course, none of us can defend the cable company since we aren't the cable company so do not know their true costs. And, if you even mention, "Why don't you ask the cable company?" it is met with insults and ridicule.

If that doesn't alter your "guess' then you can enjoy the silo too!
In other words, you’ve decided who can ask legitimate questions, and who can provide meaningful answers. Further, you seem to think you qualify on both ends but refuse to come down off your high horse and rationally discuss the issues. Instead, you simply tell us “you rich/white guys aren’t welcome in the discussion.

Think you might be part of the problem?


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Mar 11, 2006
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#38
Pretty telling we are this far in this thread and no one can make a understandable argument that systemic racism exist at any, more than very minor, level in today’s world.
I think that answers the OP question.
 

okstate987

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#39
I hear there is systemic racism embedded in our justice system, education system, corporate job environments, sports leagues, and various other institutions and organizations. While there may be some level of racism contained therein, IMO, the problems the black community experiences in those environments have many root causes which won’t be meaningfully solved by curing any imbedded racism that may exist.


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That is a strange way of saying you don't believe there is such a thing as systemic racism. I strongly disagree.

Lets start with the criminal justice system, specifically the drug war. Whites and blacks use drugs at almost exactly the same rate (https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/hidden-costs-drug-prohibition), but blacks are jailed at anywhere from 4-6 times the rate for the same offense. When jailed for the same offense, they are jailed longer than whites (https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...onger-prison-sentences-than-white-men-for-the). You also have the crack and cocaine discrepancy in sentencing where crack had penalties 100x greater per weight, despite the fact that the active dose was not 100x smaller. This was implemented in the mid 80's and not revised until 2010! (https://www.ussc.gov/research/congr...port-congress-impact-fair-sentencing-act-2010). Drug offenses according to this report were the plurality of all offences at over 38%. (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vfluc.pdf)

Then, with a larger percentage of those incarcerated with felonies, they no longer can get a decent job after they are released, cannot support their kids effectively and at that point it has a community effect.

I would say that the majority of the people who are involved in the criminal justice system are not racist, although a few are, and the policies put in place and how they were executed (the Broken Window theory of policing), had an impact that heavily impacted minorities in a negative way.

Then you have policies like redlining, which were ended long ago, but had a major impact on wealth building---just look at how much housing and property values have gone up since then. Many blacks were prevented from getting into the market at all, or if they did, they could only purchase homes in poorer areas.

Its one thing if everyone started off at a roughly similar place and one group fell far behind on their own volition. Using a running analogy: It is another thing to not be allowed to participate at all for a couple hundred years, then when they are allowed to participate, have to run with a weighted backpack for another 100 years. When the weighted backpack is removed, they get time penalties for doing stuff other people in the race are doing.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#40
This lead-in shows a lack of understanding of what systemic racism is and who/what causes it.
What are some examples of what you consider to be systemic racism? The biggest issue I see is lack of access to quality K-12 education in lower income areas. This affects a disproportionate amount of minorities, but it isn't really something I would consider to be systemically racist.