Scared rich people

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Mar 11, 2006
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#41
No debate from me here on the breaking locks&gates issue. If you break stuff down then you can expect someone to defend themselves.

I do want to point out that you can’t assume past damages to property will mean anything here. While there’s all sorts of mitigating city ordinances that could be broken, these ppl are trying to utilize part of the first amendment and if it’s a public street then pending ordinances they have the right to gather (with a cause) there. Fear is not actually defense.


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According to the St Louis Post Dispatch, Portland Place is a private street.
 

GodsPeace

Joshua 1:9
Aug 20, 2004
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#42
Actually, it does matter. You can’t instigate and then blame the other person’s reaction... hence Improper Brandishing of a Weapon being a crime.

You edited your comment to add the gated thing so I’ll tack onto mine too that I agree that could change the case. But now you’re going into HOA bylaws to figure out the arraignment between the city and the HOA to see if the street is public or private property. If the gate was open it’s a reasonable solution to assume that these ppl marching thought they were utilizing a public street (which it still might be), meaning that logically (maybe not legally) the homeowners still could of instigated it


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What logic are these homeowners supposed to use to determine if these people are "peaceful" or about to light up the whole neighborhood? What educated guess should they go with? I don't think I would stand outside with my wife with guns, but I'd sure as hell be ready to go.

I'm not about to sit by and let my house(not a mansion by a long stretch) flame up because they are angry. I don't care that you are angry. What level of angry gives you the right to riot and burn things down? In Beverly Hills they marched through chanting "Eat the Rich." What does that even mean?

This will keep happening until people get serious about stopping this stuff. That will require people to brave being called a racist. Not fun, but it is what will be needed to end this stuff.
 

jakeman

Unhinged Idiot
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Apr 4, 2005
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#45
This whole thing is just classic.

Filthy rich white Civil Rights lawyers representing mainly black clients against the police. Assaulted by mostly white people, and defending themselves with an angry black gun (and a tiny little chrome plated pea shooter).

Now this is just beautiful.

I wonder how these folks feel about their less affluent fellow citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

Classic. Just classic.
 

llcoolw

Territorial Marshal
Feb 7, 2005
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Sammamish, Washington.Dallas, Texas.Maui, Hawaii
#46
This whole thing is just classic.

Filthy rich white Civil Rights lawyers representing mainly black clients against the police. Assaulted by mostly white people, and defending themselves with an angry black gun (and a tiny little chrome plated pea shooter).

Now this is just beautiful.

I wonder how these folks feel about their less affluent fellow citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

Classic. Just classic.
The irony is delicious
 
Nov 16, 2013
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tractor
#48
It starts after guns have already been pulled so we have no knowledge to what was happening before. Just because people acted a certain way when a gun was pointed at them doesn’t mean they were acting that way before.

Improper Brandishing a weapon is a crime for a reason, ppl will react to it.


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Maybe people should respect private property and not trespass? Don't be oppressive with your anger and outrage.
 

Jostate

Bluecolla's sock
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Jun 24, 2005
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#49
I don't think I would stand outside with my wife with guns, but I'd sure as hell be ready to go.

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This is still where I land. They made themselves a focal point. I'd have the guns ready to go and watch through the window until the first idiot approached the house. Then turn on the TV and watch the crapstorm at the Mayor's house.
 
May 31, 2007
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#50
Actually, it does matter. You can’t instigate and then blame the other person’s reaction... hence Improper Brandishing of a Weapon being a crime.

You edited your comment to add the gated thing so I’ll tack onto mine too that I agree that could change the case. But now you’re going into HOA bylaws to figure out the arraignment between the city and the HOA to see if the street is public or private property. If the gate was open it’s a reasonable solution to assume that these ppl marching thought they were utilizing a public street (which it still might be), meaning that logically (maybe not legally) the homeowners still could of instigated it


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I did not edit my comment. Not sure why you would say that.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#51
It starts after guns have already been pulled so we have no knowledge to what was happening before. Just because people acted a certain way when a gun was pointed at them doesn’t mean they were acting that way before.

Improper Brandishing a weapon is a crime for a reason, ppl will react to it.


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Maybe people should respect private property and not trespass? Don't be oppressive with your anger and outrage.
Just make sure they’re actually tresspassing eh? Otherwise you’re just shooting someone.


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Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#52
I don't think I would stand outside with my wife with guns, but I'd sure as hell be ready to go.

.
This is still where I land. They made themselves a focal point. I'd have the guns ready to go and watch through the window until the first idiot approached the house. Then turn on the TV and watch the crapstorm at the Mayor's house.
Yeah I don’t have a problem with that part either.

Unfortunately there was the rest of his comment.


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Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#54
What logic are these homeowners supposed to use to determine if these people are "peaceful" or about to light up the whole neighborhood? What educated guess should they go with? I don't think I would stand outside with my wife with guns, but I'd sure as hell be ready to go.

I'm not about to sit by and let my house(not a mansion by a long stretch) flame up because they are angry. I don't care that you are angry. What level of angry gives you the right to riot and burn things down? In Beverly Hills they marched through chanting "Eat the Rich." What does that even mean?

This will keep happening until people get serious about stopping this stuff. That will require people to brave being called a racist. Not fun, but it is what will be needed to end this stuff.
There’s no “about to”. If it’s a peaceful march and you through your psychic powers predict the march is about to become in not peaceful before they actually commit any sort of crime, leading you whip out your firearm and start pointing it at people who, again, haven’t committed a crime yet... Then you are in the wrong. It doesn’t matter if on the news you’ve seen other marches get violent, this one hasn’t yet. You can’t defend yourself unless you are actually threatened... otherwise it isn’t defending yourself.

That doesn’t seem to be the case here, the couple seemed to have a reasonable expectation to protection by the gates, and they are absolutely right to feel threatened if people are breaking gates down. But let’s not say that marches themselves are something that inherently a threat and must all be quelled only by the threat of force.


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Nov 16, 2013
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tractor
#55
Just make sure they’re actually tresspassing eh? Otherwise you’re just shooting someone.


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They were on private property, thats a gated community, eh? What right does a mob have to break down an iron gate to enter private property to intimidate someone?
 
Apr 12, 2020
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Stillwater
#56
Just make sure they’re actually tresspassing eh? Otherwise you’re just shooting someone.


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They were on private property, thats a gated community, eh? What right does a mob have to break down an iron gate to enter private property to intimidate someone?
Sure, then defend yourself away. They have no right. But you replied to a comment that wasn’t debating if they had a gate caved in, but was stating the presence of the march itself (i.e. in any neighborhood) was threatening enough to go waving guns. And it’s not.

So like I said, make sure it’s trespassing.


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GodsPeace

Joshua 1:9
Aug 20, 2004
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#57
There’s no “about to”. If it’s a peaceful march and you through your psychic powers predict the march is about to become in not peaceful before they actually commit any sort of crime, leading you whip out your firearm and start pointing it at people who, again, haven’t committed a crime yet... Then you are in the wrong. It doesn’t matter if on the news you’ve seen other marches get violent, this one hasn’t yet. You can’t defend yourself unless you are actually threatened... otherwise it isn’t defending yourself.

That doesn’t seem to be the case here, the couple seemed to have a reasonable expectation to protection by the gates, and they are absolutely right to feel threatened if people are breaking gates down. But let’s not say that marches themselves are something that inherently a threat and must all be quelled only by the threat of force.


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Yes they had a reasonable expectation. It is a private gated community. The second you breach those gates you are illegally trespassing on private property. My place, for example, is WAY out of the way. You don't come here by accident. No Trespassing signs are posted. You enter at your own risk. You have NO RIGHT to protest at my private residence, and the second you are trespassing illegally I am within my rights to protect my property and/or life.

These people are morons. They are seeking an escalation to drag more people into this fray. I don't think they'll like the result.
 
May 31, 2007
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#58
Yes they had a reasonable expectation. It is a private gated community. The second you breach those gates you are illegally trespassing on private property. My place, for example, is WAY out of the way. You don't come here by accident. No Trespassing signs are posted. You enter at your own risk. You have NO RIGHT to protest at my private residence, and the second you are trespassing illegally I am within my rights to protect my property and/or life.

These people are morons. They are seeking an escalation to drag more people into this fray. I don't think they'll like the result.
Also, I don’t know if silently holding a firearm on your private property while unknown people are walking by would be considered brandishing. To me you probably have to be pointing the gun at the crowd and / or imminently threatening to use it for that to be the case. Since we don’t know what led up to the confrontation I just don’t think we can accuse the couple of that. If they were silently standing by and then the mob became threatening at that point what we saw on the video seems fine IMO.
 

Well

Cowboy
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Dec 17, 2009
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#59
They are seeking an escalation to drag more people into this fray.
Agreed. IMO the protests have run their course. Now legal lines are being tempted and crossed as BLM sees the need to escalate because of push back. BLM has done its job creating an atmosphere of change in law enforcement. A very real needed change, with more change to come I hope. But to continue with this form of protest (in the streets) is counterproductive. And it looks like Oklahoma County has taken the lead on halting the lawlessness, with D.A. Praters comments on the terrorism charges filed recently and proclaiming "This is not Seattle". It does appear the buck has stopped.
 
Nov 16, 2013
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tractor
#60
Sure, then defend yourself away. They have no right. But you replied to a comment that wasn’t debating if they had a gate caved in, but was stating the presence of the march itself (i.e. in any neighborhood) was threatening enough to go waving guns. And it’s not.

So like I said, make sure it’s trespassing.


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You have 500 people marching down your private street with the only access being a key coded gate. 99.9% chance of trespass