Active shooter at Texas elementary school

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PF5

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Jan 3, 2014
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I agree that we have a problem and we need change. That being said, it's important to understand that 77% of mass shootings are done with common handguns. Banning rifles like the AR-15 won't stop them.
maybe ban them from teens then? like I said earlier, this massacre probably doesn't happen if not for texas laws..
 

steross

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It's not what I believe, it's what I hear from democrat politicians. The gun control battle is the same as the battle over abortion. Death by a thousand cuts. Democrats are figuring that out now with roe being eliminated. It was a miracle that we were able to reverse the "assault" weapon ban. Remember the columbine shooting? Took place during the "assault" weapon ban. They went in with pistols and shotguns and killed a bunch of people. Did that "assault" weapon ban stop democrats from trying to further gun control? Nope. So again, when the democrats speak, I listen.

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Lets make is exactly like abortion laws in OK and TX. Anyone can sue anyone that aids and abets a gun crime. Sue the parents. Sue the gunmaker. Sue the friend that drove someone to Walmart to buy a gun.

That is the current abortion law. You can sue the Uber driver that took the woman to the clinic. Why not the same for child murderers?

Are we saying that this type of law is good enough to protect an embryo but not to protect post-birth children?
 

steross

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Just watch. Republicans will put out a policy that addresses school safety and their desire to fund it and democrats will not support it. Stating " it doesn't do enough".

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Fund it with a new tax on guns and ammo. If by "fund it" you mean add it to the $30 Trillion budget deficit that is simply asking the children to fund their own security from our current gunmen.
 

LS1 Z28

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maybe ban them from teens then? like I said earlier, this massacre probably doesn't happen if not for texas laws..
I would be open to that conversation. We already have laws in place to restrict young adults from buying handguns before they turn 21. It might make sense to put similar restrictions on certain rifles as well. That being said, the average age of a school shooter is 16, so I'm not sure those restrictions would change much.

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MustangPokeFan

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Sep 9, 2005
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I would argue firearms have a much greater additional use than those things that you cited. The primary use is self defense and protecting one’s home. It’s also for protecting yourself against a tyrannical government and it was insured for all Americans by our Founders. Stop blaming the tool and start looking at the fool and examining how they got that way! We really have to stop and analyze why we are producing so many psychopaths and the reason is not because guns exist.
We are arguing two different things. You are arguing secondary uses, I was arguing primary purpose for why they exist.

We got a lot of psychopaths who are guaranteed a gun under our freedoms and a lot people who are willing to defend a psychopath's right to a gun.
Well I’m not one of those who would defend that. If the system were enforced the way it’s supposed to be this kid should’ve never been able to get a gun. He had been committed to the mental hospital by his school counselor and then let out. Once that happened he should’ve been on a registry and never allowed to buy a gun. It’s just sheer laziness and indifference. I’m not saying there’s not room to amend some of the laws regarding firearms and ammunition, I’m just saying the left wants to use that as an avenue to eventually take them away completely.

I listened to Nancy Pelosi screaming “why in gods name would we allow an 18 year old to have possession of a weapon”. The irony was so rich considering how many 18 year olds she and her ilk have armed been sent to foreign countries to die
 

gogetumpoke

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Lets make is exactly like abortion laws in OK and TX. Anyone can sue anyone that aids and abets a gun crime. Sue the parents. Sue the gunmaker. Sue the friend that drove someone to Walmart to buy a gun.

That is the current abortion law. You can sue the Uber driver that took the woman to the clinic. Why not the same for child murderers?

Are we saying that this type of law is good enough to protect an embryo but not to protect post-birth children?
Huh?
 

Duke Silver

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Gun owner here who would like to see the following: increased age limits, waiting periods, background checks and potentially training requirements for anything more dangerous than a .22.

I'd also like improved bullying response protocols for schools and potentially for parents to be held accountable for violent crimes committee by their children when they had reasonable steps available to them that would have directly prevented it, which could include failing to seek services, report risk, and giving them firearms. The standards for the latter would need compassionate and supportive application, but are absolutely geared toward situations where parents blow off risks identified by the school, like the Michigan shooting where the parents bought him the gun and didn't seem to take school concerns seriously. Schools already have to have safety plans and it's such a common thing now, that it seems superfluous, but if there's room on that front, I'm game. I'm also flexible and open to other ideas, even if I think the whole thing is hopeless. I would be very happy to be proven wrong.
Agreed.
 
May 4, 2011
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I can embrace some of those proposed actions, but only when someone can first show me evidence it will materially reduce an evil person’s ability to obtain guns illegally.
What kind of evidence do you want? We won't get large scale RCTs and the ease of getting guns out of state/town make it hard to use that system. Not sure if this will sway you at all, but 2004 was when the federal AR ban and magazine capacity law expired. This definitely looks like mass shootings increases after. The period of the ban and the period since are also reversed in terms of overall murder rate. So, the rate of mass shootings went up as violent crime fell overall.

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What kind of evidence do you want? We won't get large scale RCTs and the ease of getting guns out of state/town make it hard to use that system. Not sure if this will sway you at all, but 2004 was when the federal AR ban and magazine capacity law expired. This definitely looks like mass shootings increases after. The period of the ban and the period since are also reversed in terms of overall murder rate. So, the rate of mass shootings went up as violent crime fell overall.

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Interesting, and I appreciate you sharing it. The numbers certainly reflect the increase relative to all previous years, however, the point of my previous comment was to reinforce the fact that you could Genie blink the elimination of all assault weapons at 8:00 a.m., and by 5:00 p.m. criminals/evil people will find a way to kill ‘en masse. It’s what they do, they don’t care about laws.
 

LS1 Z28

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What kind of evidence do you want? We won't get large scale RCTs and the ease of getting guns out of state/town make it hard to use that system. Not sure if this will sway you at all, but 2004 was when the federal AR ban and magazine capacity law expired. This definitely looks like mass shootings increases after. The period of the ban and the period since are also reversed in terms of overall murder rate. So, the rate of mass shootings went up as violent crime fell overall.
The assault weapons ban went into effect in late 1994 and lasted for 10 years. According to your chart, we averaged 1.9 mass shootings per year over that period. In the 10 years prior, we averaged 1.8 mass shootings per year.

IMO, the primary reason we've seen an explosion in mass shootings is due to the fact that we now make the shooters famous. There seems to be a significant correlation between mass shootings and the rise of social media.

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May 4, 2011
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Interesting, and I appreciate you sharing it. The numbers certainly reflect the increase relative to all previous years, however, the point of my previous comment was to reinforce the fact that you could Genie blink the elimination of all assault weapons at 8:00 a.m., and by 5:00 p.m. criminals/evil people will find a way to kill ‘en masse. It’s what they do, they don’t care about laws.
But then why do mass shootings increase while the murder rate has stayed mostly flat since 2004? I'm not saying it's all about ARs and high capacity magazines either. I would make two larger points, though. First, these are probably the best kind of data we'll have and they definitely look like there is an effect. Second, some things won't have great data and you'll have to be specific about whether you think overall gun deaths will decrease or just mass shootings. I think most of these proposals won't reduce overall gun deaths much, but could have an impact on mass shootings. It sure seems like most of these are teenage boys with relatively recently purchased/gifted weapons and frequently brushed off concerns. Maybe these approaches don't eliminate them, but reducing them even by 50% would be a big deal.
 

steross

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Those of you who are absolutely certain in your mind that we as Americans simply cannot in any way follow in the footsteps of all of the other industrialized nations of the world and spend a lot of time trying to make arguments about why we, and only we, are so different should read this. See if you have any concern about the "what if" that you are simply wrong and the rest of the world is right. I mean, you have to admit that it is at least a possibility. Is it worth the chance?

I wish I was as mentally strong as this young woman.
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