Broken Arrow accused of constitutional violation

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Binman4OSU

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#1
At least 10 student athletes were baptized at football practice by one of the coaches.

Some of the players shared video of the baptisms on social media. BA has been now accused of violating constitutional rights.


Preston confirms in the video that the baptisms took place 'after football practice, right here at Broken Arrow High School.' He explains that 10 football team members 'gave their life to Christ' and 'those same students step[ped] forward in baptism in front of all their peers' after practice. Included in the video is a coach’s dunking in the baptismal tub, induced to 'step foot into the baptism waters' after 'he saw the faith in his players.' Preston rejoiced in witnessing 'the team coming around each other taking a bold stand for Christ' and in God 'drawing students to the baptism water.'"
 
Feb 11, 2007
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#2
At least 10 student athletes were baptized at football practice by one of the coaches.

Some of the players shared video of the baptisms on social media. BA has been now accused of violating constitutional rights.


Preston confirms in the video that the baptisms took place 'after football practice, right here at Broken Arrow High School.' He explains that 10 football team members 'gave their life to Christ' and 'those same students step[ped] forward in baptism in front of all their peers' after practice. Included in the video is a coach’s dunking in the baptismal tub, induced to 'step foot into the baptism waters' after 'he saw the faith in his players.' Preston rejoiced in witnessing 'the team coming around each other taking a bold stand for Christ' and in God 'drawing students to the baptism water.'"
How is this a violation of anything ?
 

CocoCincinnati

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#3
So they weren't forced right? Was anybody forced to participate who didn't want to? I don't see the issue. Some people just aren't happy unless they are unhappy about something somebody else is doing that doesn't effect them in the least.
 

LS1 Z28

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#4
How is this a violation of anything ?
My novice understanding of "separation of church and state" is that public schools are allowed to teach religion from a historical standpoint, but they aren't allowed to preach/instruct whether or not it's right or wrong. I don't know the full details of what happened here, but it sounds like this may have been violated. Things like this probably shouldn't happen on school grounds.
 

oks10

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#5
If teachers aren't allowed to lead a prayer at the flag pole before school I'm PRETTY SURE they also can't baptize kids at football practice... I don't really see how any of you could miss that...
 

andylicious

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#7
Churches, rivers, home, lakes, pools and even hot tubs in a pinch are for baptism, not football fields on school grounds. I've been a Baptist since nine months before I was born, but even I know you can't and shouldn't do this.
 

oks10

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#8
I agree on one hand, an atheist or Muslim might be too uncomfortable with that or reverse this and these kids just agreed to serve Islam. I could see where the “slippery” resides.

That said, we got a guy with a sledge hammer attacking a Columbus statue on public property with no consequences seen on video. Not even someone saying to stop.

Clown world makes it difficult for me to care beyond this post.
This isn't about making people uncomfortable. It's really simple. Teachers can't lead religious activities at school (Ex: "See You At The Pole"). This is not remotely new. It's been that way since I was at LEAST in high school 15+ years ago. I don't see how this coach thought what he was doing we even remotely acceptable within the rules that have been established for quite a while. I'm glad he's a good role model for his players and I'm happy for those players accepting Jesus and getting baptized but he stepped WAY out of line here. That should be painfully obvious to literally anyone.
 

OSUCowboy787

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#9
This isn't about making people uncomfortable. It's really simple. Teachers can't lead religious activities at school (Ex: "See You At The Pole"). This is not remotely new. It's been that way since I was at LEAST in high school 15+ years ago. I don't see how this coach thought what he was doing we even remotely acceptable within the rules that have been established for quite a while. I'm glad he's a good role model for his players and I'm happy for those players accepting Jesus and getting baptized but he stepped WAY out of line here. That should be painfully obvious to literally anyone.
So is FCA no longer allowed at schools?
 
Feb 11, 2007
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#10
This isn't about making people uncomfortable. It's really simple. Teachers can't lead religious activities at school (Ex: "See You At The Pole"). This is not remotely new. It's been that way since I was at LEAST in high school 15+ years ago. I don't see how this coach thought what he was doing we even remotely acceptable within the rules that have been established for quite a while. I'm glad he's a good role model for his players and I'm happy for those players accepting Jesus and getting baptized but he stepped WAY out of line here. That should be painfully obvious to literally anyone.
But I understand that students can conduct religious services on their own. Is that true?
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#12
I'm not religious, even somewhat anti-religious. But besides it being on school grounds, you are going to have a hard time arguing that staff and teachers can't share their religion outside of school hours and activities. People are free to practice whatever religion they want, regardless of how stupid I think it is. As long as this wasn't some kind of requirement to be on the team, then the students have rights of free association, don't they?

That said, doing this on school property is super cringe to me.
 

andylicious

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#14
I'm not religious, even somewhat anti-religious. But besides it being on school grounds, you are going to have a hard time arguing that staff and teachers can't share their religion outside of school hours and activities. People are free to practice whatever religion they want, regardless of how stupid I think it is. As long as this wasn't some kind of requirement to be on the team, then the students have rights of free association, don't they?

That said, doing this on school property is super cringe to me.
I started my career as a science teacher and I also taught 9th grade Sunday School. You don't teach Sunday School during science class and you don't teach science class during Sunday School. Oil and water don't mix, religion and being a public employee shouldn't mix.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#15
I started my career as a science teacher and I also taught 9th grade Sunday School. You don't teach Sunday School during science class and you don't teach science class during Sunday School. Oil and water don't mix, religion and being a public employee shouldn't mix.
But it says it wasn't during practice. I know it was right after, but is there some time limit here? "You must wait 30 minutes between teaching science before you can baptize someone", lol. Would stand to reason that once practice, or in your case, science class, was over, then it's free game.
 

snuffy

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#16
But it says it wasn't during practice. I know it was right after, but is there some time limit here? "You must wait 30 minutes between teaching science before you can baptize someone", lol. Would stand to reason that once practice, or in your case, science class, was over, then it's free game.
On school grounds? Where you are an authority figure in or out of the classroom?
at the very least you are or a slippery sloop?
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#17
I started my career as a science teacher and I also taught 9th grade Sunday School. You don't teach Sunday School during science class and you don't teach science class during Sunday School. Oil and water don't mix, religion and being a public employee shouldn't mix.
As a side question that will totally derail this thread - which I am ok with because it's been awhile since I've seen this asked - how do you jive those things? Teaching science and Sunday school. I'm not asking to be mean, I genuinely want to understand. They are so diametrically opposed to me, I don't know how anyone does both. I'd take an answer from anyone.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#18
On school grounds? Where you are an authority figure in or out of the classroom?
at the very least you are or a slippery sloop?
Ehh... It's after school hours. Churches regularly use schools outside of school hours for church activities.

Slippery slope? Sure, it is. But as far as a straight up constitutional violation, I'm not sure if we've got hard rules regarding that.

It is slightly ironic, I think, that I'm not religious and see some grey, but the Sunday school teacher is saying "no way!" :D
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#19
I have NO idea when this occurred. But there are a lot of religious activity at public schools. The public school nearest my house hosts Sunday services (rented out).
And FCA regularly rents out facilities.
 

andylicious

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#20
As a side question that will totally derail this thread - which I am ok with because it's been awhile since I've seen this asked - how do you jive those things? Teaching science and Sunday school. I'm not asking to be mean, I genuinely want to understand. They are so diametrically opposed to me, I don't know how anyone does both. I'd take an answer from anyone.
It's simple, science isn't a belief it's a process that either works or it doesn't, my spiritual beliefs are spiritual beliefs that I can't prove but I strongly believe. One of the most brilliant men I ever knew was one of my college professors that taught comparative anatomy and he was one of the greatest biblical scholars I ever knew.