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Look at the death and hospitalization rates for the current strains vs alpha and delta.
Australia and NZ also did big lockdowns and have realistic numbers (who knows for NK). They are now having cases but are dealing with a weakened virus in an immunized population. They have death rates of 300/million and 185/million instead of the US with a death rate of 3000/million.
A 10-15 TIMES lower death rate has a lot of value to me. I can't see how far less dead people two years in seems far worse than just getting it over with and living through the hell we faced.
Australia and NZ also did big lockdowns and have realistic numbers (who knows for NK). They are now having cases but are dealing with a weakened virus in an immunized population. They have death rates of 300/million and 185/million instead of the US with a death rate of 3000/million.
A 10-15 TIMES lower death rate has a lot of value to me. I can't see how far less dead people two years in seems far worse than just getting it over with and living through the hell we faced.
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I'll have to do research on the numbers, but it seems we wouldn't have stood for those kinds of lockdowns, riots would have been far worse here had we been forced to lock down on that scale and i don't discount that deaths would have increased due to the destabilization of our country to that type of forced compliance. In terms of death at the time you might be correct, but in terms of long term damage to society I'm not sure. It's easy to look back and say this would have worked better...or that would have worked better. But the facts are that places will do things that large free countries with unified states that are set up to be "like" their own little countries in terms of law, just won't. Low risk tolerance and forced compliance to federal mandates and laws aren't the "American way," and never have been. Why not look at NYC who had the most radical lockdowns of anyone in our country and compare it to death rates in say Montana? Not sure you get my point here, but to me these aren't apples to apples...different places aren't the same, and we cannot duplicate situations in diverse conditions. I was simply saying that they are now dealing with what we dealt with in 2020...a full 2 years late...I'm also saying that had they dealt with this then they wouldn't be dealing with it now. Plus it's North Korea...so who the hell really knows.
If you are going to make up scenarios in your head of the worse things that could theoretically happen with a national lockdown then of course that isn't going to work. The question you asked is "how are they effective" and 'why delay the inevitable." Well, there are places that they clearly were effective and delaying the inevitable allowed immunization and a less virulent virus and far fewer deaths. No place did worse. There is no "well, what if" or "it seems" to those facts. We don't know if we would have come together a la WW2 or 911 or if we would have stayed selfish because we never got the opportunity because of the messaging from our fractured leadership.
If the "American way" has become that much of our society is so selfish that they would rather have a bunch of their fellow Americans die instead of work as a community for the greater good we aren't going to be around much longer anyway. Look at history.
And, no they are not dealing with what we dealt with in 2020. It isn't even close to as bad.
If you are going to start claiming "science" like you did in the other thread, you really should start looking at things scientifically. Science isn't forming an opinion and looking for ways to show it is true. Science is looking at facts and creating hypothesis from those and changing your mind when the facts show a change. Sure longer term lockdowns looked possibly useless other than depressuring the hospital system when the virus was virulent and we had no immunization. But, those simply aren't the facts at hand now. Countries that delayed have far lower death rates than countries that took it on.
If the "American way" has become that much of our society is so selfish that they would rather have a bunch of their fellow Americans die instead of work as a community for the greater good we aren't going to be around much longer anyway. Look at history.
And, no they are not dealing with what we dealt with in 2020. It isn't even close to as bad.
If you are going to start claiming "science" like you did in the other thread, you really should start looking at things scientifically. Science isn't forming an opinion and looking for ways to show it is true. Science is looking at facts and creating hypothesis from those and changing your mind when the facts show a change. Sure longer term lockdowns looked possibly useless other than depressuring the hospital system when the virus was virulent and we had no immunization. But, those simply aren't the facts at hand now. Countries that delayed have far lower death rates than countries that took it on.
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Again it's North Korea. There is no way they avoided this for 2 years and if they somehow managed to it was due to every case they encountered being fatal even if the person who got it wasn't that sick.
And yeah if they managed to get this far without a major breakout they are better off. Two years ago we had no idea what we were facing. Now we know what we are dealing with and have vaccines to prevent it and treatments for people who get really sick. This virus killed a million people here. I'm not advocating their style of lockdown but to advocate letting this run its course after we saw what happened when many didn't take it seriously in the first place is insane. For someone who claims to be pro life you have suddenly become really flippant to a disease that has claimed a million lives. You should probably pray about that.
And yeah if they managed to get this far without a major breakout they are better off. Two years ago we had no idea what we were facing. Now we know what we are dealing with and have vaccines to prevent it and treatments for people who get really sick. This virus killed a million people here. I'm not advocating their style of lockdown but to advocate letting this run its course after we saw what happened when many didn't take it seriously in the first place is insane. For someone who claims to be pro life you have suddenly become really flippant to a disease that has claimed a million lives. You should probably pray about that.
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One of the things I like about these threads/posts is they force me to go look up things for myself.
Interesting to note that while the population size is not comparable Australia looks to produce around 90% of their own food supply while the US is around 85%.
Also interesting is that according to some data I saw the US provides no foreign aid to Australia.
Interesting to note that while the population size is not comparable Australia looks to produce around 90% of their own food supply while the US is around 85%.
Also interesting is that according to some data I saw the US provides no foreign aid to Australia.
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Looking things up? You’re doing it all wrong.
First, you make an uninformed, flippant remark based on something as simple as American Exceptionalism, for example.
Then, when someone challenges your claim, simply laugh at them and offer no substantive evidence for your argument.
You act like you’ve never read ‘The Art of the Troll’ or something. Loser.
First, you make an uninformed, flippant remark based on something as simple as American Exceptionalism, for example.
Then, when someone challenges your claim, simply laugh at them and offer no substantive evidence for your argument.
You act like you’ve never read ‘The Art of the Troll’ or something. Loser.
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Better efficacy than I would have guessed. This is good news.
https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/23...ccine-authorization-for-children-under-age-5/
https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/23...ccine-authorization-for-children-under-age-5/
https://www.yahoo.com/news/taiwan-kept-covid-below-15-082038547.html
AIPEI (Reuters) - Billed a COVID-19 success story as its economy boomed through the pandemic, Taiwan is now battling a record wave of infections as it eases restrictions that had kept outbreaks at bay to start life with the virus.
For the whole of 2021, Taiwan reported less than 15,000 locally transmitted cases. Now, it's registering around 80,000 cases a day - a startling reversal after the effectiveness of its long-standing zero-COVID policy won it international praise.
"We could no longer achieve the goal of zero COVID because it was too contagious," former vice president Chen Chien-jen, an epidemiologist, said in a video released by the ruling Democratic Progressive Party on Sunday. Most cases in Taiwan are of the less severe Omicron variant, with more than 99.7% of cases exhibiting mild or no symptoms, he said.
Taiwan is focusing on eliminating serious illness while easing disruptions, allowing milder cases to see doctors online with home delivery of oral antiviral products.
Health Minister Chen Shih-chung said on Monday that Taiwan aims to keep the death rate below 0.1%. The current rate is around 0.06% and rising slowly.
Opposition parties said the government was ill-prepared, citing an initial shortage of home rapid test kits when cases started spiking last month, and criticised it for moving too slowly to secure vaccines for children under 12.
The surge in cases is now sparking new precautions. Starting this week, classes in Taipei schools were moved online while subway ridership has fallen to about half average levels.
"Taiwan didn't really have a choice. Naturally, we need to move on to coexist with the virus," said Shih Hsin-ru, who leads the Research Center for Emerging Viral Infections at Taiwan's Chang Gung University.
AIPEI (Reuters) - Billed a COVID-19 success story as its economy boomed through the pandemic, Taiwan is now battling a record wave of infections as it eases restrictions that had kept outbreaks at bay to start life with the virus.
For the whole of 2021, Taiwan reported less than 15,000 locally transmitted cases. Now, it's registering around 80,000 cases a day - a startling reversal after the effectiveness of its long-standing zero-COVID policy won it international praise.
"We could no longer achieve the goal of zero COVID because it was too contagious," former vice president Chen Chien-jen, an epidemiologist, said in a video released by the ruling Democratic Progressive Party on Sunday. Most cases in Taiwan are of the less severe Omicron variant, with more than 99.7% of cases exhibiting mild or no symptoms, he said.
Taiwan is focusing on eliminating serious illness while easing disruptions, allowing milder cases to see doctors online with home delivery of oral antiviral products.
Health Minister Chen Shih-chung said on Monday that Taiwan aims to keep the death rate below 0.1%. The current rate is around 0.06% and rising slowly.
Opposition parties said the government was ill-prepared, citing an initial shortage of home rapid test kits when cases started spiking last month, and criticised it for moving too slowly to secure vaccines for children under 12.
The surge in cases is now sparking new precautions. Starting this week, classes in Taipei schools were moved online while subway ridership has fallen to about half average levels.
"Taiwan didn't really have a choice. Naturally, we need to move on to coexist with the virus," said Shih Hsin-ru, who leads the Research Center for Emerging Viral Infections at Taiwan's Chang Gung University.