Covid-19

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Mar 11, 2006
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Why don’t you spare us and give the context here instead?
I have not seen the Tucker piece, but I bet I can guess the context based on knowledge of Tucker and CNN.

Tucker probably said something snide about government officials must not trust the vaccine if they are still supporting mask mandates and telling people not to do normal things like go out to dinner.

CNN then took one small sound bite to make it look like Tucker thinks vaccines don’t work. @Duke Silver - was I close?
 
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Duke Silver

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I have seen the Tucker piece, but I bet I can guess the context based on knowledge of Tucker and CNN.

Tucker probably said something snide about government officials must not trust the vaccine if they are still supporting mask mandates and telling people not to do normal things like go out to dinner.

CNN then took one small sound bite to make it look like Tucker thinks vaccines don’t work. @Duke Silver - was I close?
Almost exactly. Except the ones that said what he is blamed for saying was Justin Trudeau. And then faucis
 

TheMonkey

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I have seen the Tucker piece, but I bet I can guess the context based on knowledge of Tucker and CNN.

Tucker probably said something snide about government officials must not trust the vaccine if they are still supporting mask mandates and telling people not to do normal things like go out to dinner.

CNN then took one small sound bite to make it look like Tucker thinks vaccines don’t work. @Duke Silver - was I close?
Almost exactly. Except the ones that said what he is blamed for saying was Justin Trudeau. And then faucis
So, he created a binary argument where it didn’t exist, which implies that officials don’t trust the vaccine.

That changes everything.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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Have you guys seen the "make it happen" ad that Oklahoma has put out for the vaccine? I think it's very good and emphasizes getting the shot so we can Make "it" happen Oklahoma (the "it" being whatever thing you miss from pre-pandemic). I thought it was very good....but can't find it to post here...IF you are one of the ones who has decided they aren't going to get the vaccine, please re-think that choice...are you being selfish? Are you limiting what others can do in our society if enough of you make that choice and it continues the spread of covid? Once again, former POTUS Trump got it, Biden got it, both the former and current VP's got it, our Governor has gotten it, our state senators have both gotten it, I would bet our entire congressional delegation have as well. What's keeping you from doing your little part of what is needed to end this thing?
 
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May 31, 2007
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Have you guys seen the "make it happen" ad that Oklahoma has put out for the vaccine? I think it's very good and emphasizes getting the shot so we can Make "it" happen Oklahoma (the "it" being whatever thing you miss from pre-pandemic). I thought it was very good....but can't find it to post here...IF you are one of the ones who has decided they aren't going to get the vaccine, please re-think that choice...are you being selfish? Are you limiting what others can do in our society if enough of you make that choice and it continues the spread of covid? Once again, former POTUS Trump got it, Biden got it, both the former and current VP's got it, our Governor has gotten it, our state senators have both gotten it, I would bet our entire congressional delegation have as well. What's keeping you from doing your little part of what is needed to end this thing?
I wonder what vaccine fence riders think of your approach at trying to get them to jump over to your side? When I read your daily
posts urging people to get vaccinated my gut reaction is that you aren’t helping but maybe it’s just me. I know your intentions are good though.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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I wonder what vaccine fence riders think of your approach at trying to get them to jump over to your side? When I read your daily
posts urging people to get vaccinated my gut reaction is that you aren’t helping but maybe it’s just me. I know your intentions are good though.
My wife was reluctant, she and her mother had a huge fight due to her mother trying to guilt and shame her into taking the vaccine. I told her I was getting it and told her my reasons for getting it and how I just want to be done with it and she decided to get it. Cheerleading, guilt, shame, threats, especially from strangers on the internet, don't work and typically harden people into their positions. Honestly discussing things with loved ones, giving them access to all the information and respecting their opinions works.
 

Rack

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I wonder what vaccine fence riders think of your approach at trying to get them to jump over to your side? When I read your daily
posts urging people to get vaccinated my gut reaction is that you aren’t helping but maybe it’s just me. I know your intentions are good though.
Maybe not...I might need to stop, but I do think reporting the numbers that we have accomplished is good? No? But I think you are right about the 'strangers on the internet part" I do also attempt to get others to change their opinions in person as well, however, many are so set in their, I hate to call it this because I agree with these people on many things, but, it sadly ignorance and mistrust. It's hard for me to understand that otherwise reasonable people can't see the wisdom of getting the vaccine and doing their part. It feels that if their numbers are significant enough that they will actually stop our extremely good progress. In Oklahoma we are giving the vaccine to any and everyone and had to open it up to others outside our boarders, I hate to say it, but it's because locals aren't getting it in big enough numbers anymore despite us only being 35% or so fully vaccinated. In the past anti vaccine people weren't in the large numbers as they are now and it saddens me that the lack of trust is so deep that these folks seem blinded to the fact that most all of the leaders they look up to have actually also been big advocates for the vaccine and it's ability to move us on...in fact, nearly all our leaders have on every side, so that just seems strangely odd to me that we have so many that are hesitant or just down right refusers. Certainly I understand someone being hesitant, but this is something that has killed well over 500K people in the USA alone, and, if you know many people, we nearly all know someone who has died. It just makes no sense to me. Once again, I thank you for your critique as I don't want to dissuade someone/anyone from selfishly not getting the shots they/we need them to get in order for society to get back to "normal."

Just to be up front, I was once a fence sitter myself until I read an article from creation.org (I think) as to why Christians shouldn't be afraid to take the vaccines. It outlined vaccine technology and history, answered questions I had about fetal tissue in the past and gives good theology of how and why God allows man to have knowledge and how it's not distrusting of God to also trust doctors, whom he created and gave knowledge, to help take care of our health. Not to deny that direct heavenly healing doesn't still exist, but to acknowledge that in God's wisdom he has allowed man to share in the joy of that healing process. These vaccines are a part of that Joy that God has created and given to man to access. I will look for that article and post it here...it's words are far better than mine. Here's another one I found today.3 Bioethical Questions About COVID-19 Vaccines | Christianity Today
From the above article...
"Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, suggested that people who approach vaccination as a personal choice with consequences that affect only them should think more broadly about their susceptible neighbors."

"There are third parties—people who cannot take the vaccine or do not yet have access to it that could still be infected by those who refuse to take the vaccine,” he wrote. “The general principle of the common good comes down to benevolence, love, care for others, laying down personal priorities for the service of others. Christians thinking about the issue of the vaccine must weigh this key biblical principle as part of their thinking.”
 
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Jul 10, 2009
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Have you guys seen the "make it happen" ad that Oklahoma has put out for the vaccine? I think it's very good and emphasizes getting the shot so we can Make "it" happen Oklahoma (the "it" being whatever thing you miss from pre-pandemic). I thought it was very good....but can't find it to post here...IF you are one of the ones who has decided they aren't going to get the vaccine, please re-think that choice...are you being selfish? Are you limiting what others can do in our society if enough of you make that choice and it continues the spread of covid? Once again, former POTUS Trump got it, Biden got it, both the former and current VP's got it, our Governor has gotten it, our state senators have both gotten it, I would bet our entire congressional delegation have as well. What's keeping you from doing your little part of what is needed to end this thing?
And this brings us back to what Tucker Carlson is saying. Getting the vaccine is probably not going to get us back to normal. Leaders are saying that we can't eat in restaurants and will have to wear masks through 2022. By that time the protection from the vaccine will be dissipating and we will be in permanent mask / restriction mode.
 

Rack

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And this brings us back to what Tucker Carlson is saying. Getting the vaccine is probably not going to get us back to normal. Leaders are saying that we can't eat in restaurants and will have to wear masks through 2022. By that time the protection from the vaccine will be dissipating and we will be in permanent mask / restriction mode.
IMHO, he's using fear to get people to listen to him and he does have things to fear where he lives. I like Tucker, he lives in DC and that is likely the case in DC, however that is NOT likely the case in most of America as it isn't going to be around the world in places like Israel where they have given so many vaccines and are really ready to open fully. So if we do our part that narrative objection to opening up won't survive the reality of healing it will be up against. Certainly this is a GLOBAL effort, but as Americans (especially Christian ones) we need to get on board with the effort and put on the sideline our distrust of the Government. It's in no political party nor anyone's best interested to keep us locked down and restricted severely over time. Certainly masking will be around for the future and it is likely going to be something we join those in Asia that have done this forever when they are sick in order to not infect others with all sorts of viruses. I do think that will stay, that and washing hands, and being careful while sick or in flu season are going to keep us more healthy, but I don't think it's going to be "restrictive" as to the point that it becomes unproductive and unhealthy for our society moving forward. Some will continue to look for excuse to back their choice to not participate, but it's a self fulfilling prophecy if enough of us take that selfish bait.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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And this brings us back to what Tucker Carlson is saying. Getting the vaccine is probably not going to get us back to normal. Leaders are saying that we can't eat in restaurants and will have to wear masks through 2022. By that time the protection from the vaccine will be dissipating and we will be in permanent mask / restriction mode.
Which is a dumb message, if you want people to take the vaccine, tell them things go back to normal after enough people get vaccinated, things are basically back to normal where I am except at the school, and they haven't had a quarantine event since February. Young people are not going to take the vaccine unless they have a reason to, and right now they dont.
 

Rack

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Which is a dumb message, if you want people to take the vaccine, tell them things go back to normal after enough people get vaccinated, things are basically back to normal where I am except at the school, and they haven't had a quarantine event since February. Young people are not going to take the vaccine unless they have a reason to, and right now they dont.
I'd only add that young people do have a reason to participate if they want to travel internationally AND participate as not being a spreader AND to keep from getting it. Both my "Adult" children (18 and 28) have gotten the vaccine and see it as very much needed for them and their mobility as well as protecting others they are around. Both got Phizer and neither had any reaction.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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I'd only add that young people do have a reason to participate if they want to travel internationally AND participate as not being a spreader AND to keep from getting it. Both my "Adult" children (18 and 28) have gotten the vaccine and see it as very much needed for them and their mobility as well as protecting others they are around. Both got Phizer and neither had any reaction.
There are a lot of people in this country who will never even get a regular passport, what do they care if they don't get to travel internationally for a year or 2. If you want people to get vaccinated you need to do 3 things, meet them where they are and respect their decisions, give them all of the information to base their decisions off of in a way that does not belittle them and give them a reason to take it that actually would benefit them. Shaming them and calling them ignorant wont work, holier than thou wont work. Honestly this is how to make friends and influence people 101.
 

TheMonkey

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He's not saying they don't work, he's questioning why still masks and distancing from Fauci if they do. He's questioning Fauci really.
He’s doing both. He’s manufacturing a binary argument.
  1. The vaccines work = We don’t need restrictions
  2. The vaccines don’t work = We need restrictions
These are the stupid games these hosts will play to get viewers and attention. Of course the issue is more nuanced, but viewers will still fall for it.

https://www.newsweek.com/tucker-car...-spread-crazy-conspiracy-theory-1583784?amp=1
During a Senate committee hearing in March, Fauci clashed with Republican Rand Paul, when the Kentucky senator said wearing a mask when vaccinated was "just theater."

Fauci responded that certain variants of the virus, notably the B.1.351 South African strain, had been able to still infect vaccinated people, with masks helping slow the spread.

"In the South African study conducted by Johnson & Johnson, they found that people who were infected with wild type and were exposed to the variant in South Africa, the 351, it was as if they had never been infected before, they had no protection," Fauci noted.
 

Rack

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There are a lot of people in this country who will never even get a regular passport, what do they care if they don't get to travel internationally for a year or 2. If you want people to get vaccinated you need to do 3 things, meet them where they are and respect their decisions, give them all of the information to base their decisions off of in a way that does not belittle them and give them a reason to take it that actually would benefit them. Shaming them and calling them ignorant wont work, holier than thou wont work. Honestly this is how to make friends and influence people 101.
I don't disagree with anything you said...totally accurate and I fall in that trap...Like I said, I'm not "holier than thou" because I was also on the fence...heck this was the first year I ever got the flu shot.
 
May 31, 2007
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And this brings us back to what Tucker Carlson is saying. Getting the vaccine is probably not going to get us back to normal. Leaders are saying that we can't eat in restaurants and will have to wear masks through 2022. By that time the protection from the vaccine will be dissipating and we will be in permanent mask / restriction mode.
I feel like trying to bribe hesitant people into getting the vaccine by saying “XYZ will happen” if they do is essentially lying to them. Once you give up certain things to authority it’s really hard sometimes to get those things back.
 

Boomer.....

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This is incredible! Of course people are not intentionally being subjected to COVID to determine the effectiveness but it's impressive with lots of new cases still happening daily and cities/states continuing to open up.

 

Rack

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I feel like trying to bribe hesitant people into getting the vaccine by saying “XYZ will happen” if they do is essentially lying to them. Once you give up certain things to authority it’s really hard sometimes to get those things back.
It's flawed logic to think that the majority of our society, or even a big minority, would want to keep people "locked down" for long periods of time...that just makes no sense to me. I also don't think it's lying to them to tell them that if they get the vaccine "XYZ" will happen when you look at the "XYZ's" below...

"Promised XYZ's" that ARE and will happen ONLY if you are vaccinated...
1. Travel...international Travel is ALREADY open to ONLY vaccinated Americans without testing to enter several countries...including Croatia, Belize, Georgia, Malta, Ecuador, Guatemala, Iceland and several others...more countries will join suit in prompt order...for the vaccinated only. You can go to some of these countries if you are unvaccinated but it will require a negative test and sometimes a quarantine. Of course some counties like Mexico never required anything of Americans. One of the BIG HUGE MASSIVE things the USA needs to do NOW is remove the requirement for vaccinated citizens to test when they return from abroad. That one remains a huge stumbling block to the return of international travel and would likely increase American vaccination.
2. Virus...You won't get it even if exposed 97% of the time...and if you do you will not get a serious case requiring hospitalization nearly 100% of the time (see above post by @Boomer..... , btw, I wonder if my FALSE positive is part of this study and how many others are ).
3. Sports...Some football teams like the Bills are allowing ONLY vaccinated people to buy tickets and expect a full stadium...IF you are vaccinated you can attend a game...IF you aren't...xyz, you can't attend. Some NBA teams and others will likely follow suit...In fact I'm in favor of this IF only to get more people on board with the vaccine.
4. Visit in homes with one unvaccinated family without masking
5. Visit in homes with multiple vaccinated families without masking
6. No requirement for quarantine after traveling abroad for vaccinated persons.
7. Travel domestically at will without any CDC level recommendations.
8. Closer to home for readers of this board...OSU players are allowed to skip daily testing once they get the vaccine...a very nice XYZ...I'd be on that big time if I was a player...No more cotton swab up my nose every stinking day.

Anyway, just know that the XYZ list is going to get bigger soon...It's inevitable, especially as we really do want to incentivize people to get the vaccine for their own and our own good as a global community.
 
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