Derek Chauvin verdict

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Binman4OSU

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#81
Why should police officers be judged by a different standard. I have no problem with removing qualified immunity for law enforcement. I do have a problem with the notion that they have to meet force against them that can potentially cause death or great bodily harm with the exact level of force they are given.
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Think of it this way. Police walk around with their guns on them at all times on Duty. Lethal force at all times available.

Typically you when an officer rolls up to a scene and want to use their BEST and most EFFECTIVE less than lethal tools, they have to go get those tools out of the trunk of the car. Why in the WORLD are the highly effective less than lethal tools not readily available at all times and why are they typically stored in the Trunk of the squad car and not easily accessible ??

If an officer jumps out of a squad car to chase a suspect who has fled their car etc and a footrace ensues. the officer is very often left with only their Lethal Option as the tool they are going to have to use..because they sure aren't going to go unlock their trunk and grab other tools before they start chasing the suspect.
 

okstate987

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#82
Study the statistics for blacks prior to the great society, and you'll see some root causes. Familial disintegration is the result of these policies, and the current culture is downhill from there.
Its the drug war, not the great society that mesed things up. Its amazing what the long term effects of incarcerating 1/5 of an adult male population will do.
 

steross

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#83
"Also, anyone who says that there are ways to disarm someone without shooting them has no experience with violence, a person with a knife/bludgeon or even unarmed charging at you is a threat to your life, especially when you are armed yourself."

You, as a private citizen, would be authorized to use lethal force if you were attacked by a person with a knife/bludgeon/gun and in many situations an unarmed rushing at you threatening your life. It's called self defense.

Why should police officers be judged by a different standard. I have no problem with removing qualified immunity for law enforcement. I do have a problem with the notion that they have to meet force against them that can potentially cause death or great bodily harm with the exact level of force they are given.

Someone comes at my wife with a knife while she is on duty, I want her to shoot him/her as quickly as possible.

Final note: This does not justify the excessive use of force against those that do not pose a threat to an officer even if presently armed. Those, however, are very fact intensive split second judgment calls by an officer that are subject to Monday morning quarterbacking by people that can put those officers in prison.
You took it to a legal aspect that I did not even say. He didn't say no experience with the legal system, he said no experience with violence. What I am saying is there are ways to disarm people, calm people down, and stop violence short of shooting everybody, which is what his statement states. His statement implies it cannot be done and they all should be shot. I am not armed at work. I have gotten weapons from people who were not in a right state of mind. It can be done. There should be no blanket statements about what should be done. What is the law, not even what I am discussing.
 

Jostate

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#84
BTW, there are still 3 cops left to face trial. Their contribution to George Floyd's death leaves a little more room for disagreement.

This is far from over.
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#85
Can someone explain to me how he was convicted on all 3 charges for a single killing? It's not like he killed the guy 3 times. I was under the impression that the charges were more of a "pick one that best applies".
 
Sep 12, 2008
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#86
They still have the sentencing.. too light and here come the riots again. I don't think mandatory minimums will cut it.
 
May 4, 2011
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#87
Think of it this way. Police walk around with their guns on them at all times on Duty. Lethal force at all times available.

Typically you when an officer rolls up to a scene and want to use their BEST and most EFFECTIVE less than lethal tools, they have to go get those tools out of the trunk of the car. Why in the WORLD are the highly effective less than lethal tools not readily available at all times and why are they typically stored in the Trunk of the squad car and not easily accessible ??

If an officer jumps out of a squad car to chase a suspect who has fled their car etc and a footrace ensues. the officer is very often left with only their Lethal Option as the tool they are going to have to use..because they sure aren't going to go unlock their trunk and grab other tools before they start chasing the suspect.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but guns are so ubiquitous that police often have a rational fear that the person could be armed and they have practical limits on what/how much they can carry. Maybe that's less likely for a suspect that runs away. I don't know, but in a lot of situations it's a tough spot for them. Its something that seems to always be missing in the police and gun debates. It's also always interesting that the back the blue crowd largely ignores the gun control measures that police often recommend that would help with their safety. I'm not saying they're right, but it is interesting.
 
Sep 12, 2008
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#88
December 2020 statistics...

At least 283 police officers have sustained injuries from gunfire while in the line of duty so far this year. Of those officers who were shot, 44 died as a result of their gunshot wounds.
 

Binman4OSU

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#89
December 2020 statistics...

At least 283 police officers have sustained injuries from gunfire while in the line of duty so far this year. Of those officers who were shot, 44 died as a result of their gunshot wounds.
Police shot and killed 49 people in March 2021 ALONE.

so far in 2021 police have shot and killed 213 suspects through the first 3 months of the year

Police shot and killed 984 suspects in 2020
 
Sep 3, 2010
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#91
Think of it this way. Police walk around with their guns on them at all times on Duty. Lethal force at all times available.

Typically you when an officer rolls up to a scene and want to use their BEST and most EFFECTIVE less than lethal tools, they have to go get those tools out of the trunk of the car. Why in the WORLD are the highly effective less than lethal tools not readily available at all times and why are they typically stored in the Trunk of the squad car and not easily accessible ??

If an officer jumps out of a squad car to chase a suspect who has fled their car etc and a footrace ensues. the officer is very often left with only their Lethal Option as the tool they are going to have to use..because they sure aren't going to go unlock their trunk and grab other tools before they start chasing the suspect.[/QUOTE]
Has it occurred to anyone that maybe we should be teaching the public that it's a bad idea to run from the cops in the first place? You couldn't pay me enough to be a cop, especially in this current environment. The cop got what he deserved yesterday in my opinion, but it amazes me that the fact that Floyd was a career criminal that was hopped up on fentanyl while committing a crime and resisting arrest is rarely mentioned. Forgive me for not clutching my pearls every time one of these thugs gets shot while breaking the law.
 

TheMonkey

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#92
The whole deadly force argument makes me think of an old movie Copycat. Holly Hunter’s character has a philosophy that disarming an armed suspect is more effective than deadly force. This scene late in the movie has always stuck with me. Granted, it’s Hollywood.

(you can start at the 2:00 mark)
 

Binman4OSU

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#93
the odd thing is that prob 80% of the people who run from police actually have NO reason to run. They just THOUGHT they did because they had legal issues in the past and assume they have some warrant or something. People run over unpaid traffic tickets!

Maybe better information to the public on their status and standing with the police department where people are proactively informed if they have a warrant out that needs to be addressed. Most law enforcement agencies still rely on Snail Mail in informing people of their status and warrant standings. Maybe a little technological investment with improved notification methods would help those 80% who run, they have no reason to run....maybe they won't if they are informed? Who knows.

These are the policing policies that need to be reviewed and possibly changed
 
Sep 6, 2012
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#94
the odd thing is that prob 80% of the people who run from police actually have NO reason to run. They just THOUGHT they did because they had legal issues in the past and assume they have some warrant or something. People run over unpaid traffic tickets!

Maybe better information to the public on their status and standing with the police department where people are proactively informed if they have a warrant out that needs to be addressed. Most law enforcement agencies still rely on Snail Mail in informing people of their status and warrant standings. Maybe a little technological investment with improved notification methods would help those 80% who run, they have no reason to run....maybe they won't if they are informed? Who knows.

These are the policing policies that need to be reviewed and possibly changed
That is a good thought on electronic. But , would that not be just as easy to throw away. Are not most legal docs served?

All this is all dependent if the information is all correct in the system. Current addresses and all.
 

CowboyJD

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#95
You took it to a legal aspect that I did not even say. He didn't say no experience with the legal system, he said no experience with violence. What I am saying is there are ways to disarm people, calm people down, and stop violence short of shooting everybody, which is what his statement states. His statement implies it cannot be done and they all should be shot. I am not armed at work. I have gotten weapons from people who were not in a right state of mind. It can be done. There should be no blanket statements about what should be done. What is the law, not even what I am discussing.
The discussion/statement was within the context of the discussion regarding alleged excessive use of force by law enforcement and what can be done about that.

And he didn't imply anything. You may have inferred that is what he meant, I dunno.

But if you were speaking in a thoeretical vacuum outside of the context of the actual conversation....cool.
 
Sep 3, 2010
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#96
the odd thing is that prob 80% of the people who run from police actually have NO reason to run. They just THOUGHT they did because they had legal issues in the past and assume they have some warrant or something. People run over unpaid traffic tickets!

Maybe better information to the public on their status and standing with the police department where people are proactively informed if they have a warrant out that needs to be addressed. Most law enforcement agencies still rely on Snail Mail in informing people of their status and warrant standings. Maybe a little technological investment with improved notification methods would help those 80% who run, they have no reason to run....maybe they won't if they are informed? Who knows.

These are the policing policies that need to be reviewed and possibly changed
Not a bad idea at all but keep in mind that this is the same demographic that the democrats keep telling us aren't even capable of getting an ID to vote.
 
Sep 6, 2012
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#97
Police shot and killed 49 people in March 2021 ALONE.

so far in 2021 police have shot and killed 213 suspects through the first 3 months of the year

Police shot and killed 984 suspects in 2020
How many of those are "good shoots" or "bad shoots" . I personally would not want to be a police officer in this day and age. I obviously do not want to be a criminal either, which is why I follow the law. It is a lot of pressure, but we need good police. Its a damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
 

CowboyJD

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#98
Think of it this way. Police walk around with their guns on them at all times on Duty. Lethal force at all times available.

Typically you when an officer rolls up to a scene and want to use their BEST and most EFFECTIVE less than lethal tools, they have to go get those tools out of the trunk of the car. Why in the WORLD are the highly effective less than lethal tools not readily available at all times and why are they typically stored in the Trunk of the squad car and not easily accessible ??

If an officer jumps out of a squad car to chase a suspect who has fled their car etc and a footrace ensues. the officer is very often left with only their Lethal Option as the tool they are going to have to use..because they sure aren't going to go unlock their trunk and grab other tools before they start chasing the suspect.
This is a completely inaccurate assertion of fact that doesn't jibe with what I know to be law enforcement policy and practice over my 22+ years in the field of law enforcement.

If an officer is authorized to carry a tazer, it's on his/her belt....as is their OC spray. More lethal weapons than their sidearm are what's kept in the trunk. If the officer is authorized to use bean bag shotguns and the like, it is mounted to the dash....inside the car.

I don't think you are asserting that they shouldn't have a sidearm (lethal force) available at all times.

Are you? If you are, that is an exceedingly bad idea.

I actually don't think this is the problem that needs to be addressed at all. De-confliction verbal techniques, more mental health training and on-scene support and advise, and getting police officers out of having to serve as social workers/mental health faciliators are what would result in a decrease in lethal encounters.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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#99
This is a completely inaccurate assertion of fact that doesn't jibe with what I know to be law enforcement policy and practice over my 22+ years in the field of law enforcement.

If an officer is authorized to carry a tazer, it's on his/her belt....as is their OC spray. More lethal weapons than their sidearm are what's kept in the trunk. If the officer is authorized to use bean bag shotguns and the like, it is mounted to the dash....inside the car.

I don't think you are asserting that they shouldn't have a sidearm (lethal force) available at all times.

Are you? If you are, that is an exceedingly bad idea.

I actually don't think this is the problem that needs to be addressed at all. De-confliction verbal techniques, more mental health training and on-scene support and advise, and getting police officers out of having to serve as social workers/mental health faciliators are what would result in a decrease in lethal encounters.
Mental health and drug use are huge part of this as well, suicide by cop is an all too frequent occurrence as is people lashing out at cops because they are drugged up, paranoid or have a mental illness. Cops have to protect themselves in these situations, its tragic, but my intuition is that a very large section of those deaths fall into those categories.
 

Binman4OSU

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That is a good thought on electronic. But , would that not be just as easy to throw away. Are not most legal docs served?

All this is all dependent if the information is all correct in the system. Current addresses and all.
I do not believe bench warrants are served papers ? @CowboyJD can you confirm. Those are just issued by the court and mailed out and not served as papers to the person they are issued against correct