Mike Holder

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Apr 14, 2008
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Texas
#21
What did we finish in the Sears cup last year? Where did our football team finish last year? Where did our women's tennis program finish. I'm with you on Gundy...we need to pay the man and keep him very happy...but a one hit wonder basketball coach who was fully aware of our predicament shouldn't have taken the job in the first place if he was going to hold our feet to the fire for more than double his salary after less than one normal year of work. I say we give Mike what he wants and hire Doug for the cheapest we can at this point...When Doug earns it we pay him what he's worth at that time...but not before. At least Doug will likely have some loyalty as Mike has proven to have as well. Do we really want a yes man AD who gives coaches what we can't afford at the expense of other programs? Do we want to have coaches break the rules because the AD isn't looking or has no power? These are the bigger questions that have to be answered. Not just why some greedy coach went looking when we likely offered him quite a nice raise.
In no way am I supporting Underwood...IMO, one year is too quick to make a move and may very well be an indicator of how much a used car salesman Underwood is. He got everyone to believe he was here to right the BB ship. If this move is indicative of his character then good riddence.

Unfortunately history has shown that Holder has a propensity for fumbling contract negotiations. You can't do that at a major university with your two flagship sports.

Fire Holder!
 
Jul 15, 2005
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#22
John E. Hoover: With Brad Underwood’s shocking departure to Illinois, OSU must examine its AD’s ability to do the job

TULSA — It was fun while it lasted, but the Brad Underwood era is over at Oklahoma State after just one season.

Maybe now OSU will get serious about hiring someone who’s qualified to do the job.

Not the men’s basketball job.

The athletic director job.

Mike Holder just outdid himself by letting Underwood get away to Illinois on Saturday after just one promising season, going beyond even the ridiculous 10-year contract he gave Travis Ford.

Oh, it was so important to put people back in the seats at Gallager-Iba Arena, wasn’t it? It was so important to “Bring the Rowdy Back” and “Pack the House,” right? It was so important to hire a legitimate basketball coach and have a contender again, huh?

It was — until it came time to pay that coach what he’s worth.

What an embarrassment for Oklahoma State.

That’s the bottom line. Holder and the OSU administration were unwilling to pay Underwood what he’s worth, or at least get serious about moving forward in negotiations, and Underwood left because he felt financially disrespected.

Underwood and Holder didn’t reply to multiple interview requests. But both men issued statements.

“We are saddened and disappointed in Brad’s decision to leave Oklahoma State after one year,” Holder said. “We are trying to digest this news. We wish Brad and his family well. In the meantime, we will consider the situation and move forward.”

“Coaching basketball at the University of Illinois is a once-in-lifetime opportunity,” Underwood said. “The players, fans and administration at Oklahoma State have been absolutely incredible, and I want to thank them for the support they’ve given me and my family over the last year. However, during my time at Western Illinois, I always saw the Illinois coaching job as one of the truly best in the nation. I want to thank (athletic director) Josh Whitman for the opportunity to join the Fighting Illini family and look forward to working with him to build a championship program. I can’t wait to get started with our team. Next season can’t get here fast enough for me!”

To be fair to Holder, Underwood was a great hire from Stephen F. Austin, where he led the mid-major Lumberjacks to outrageous success in just three seasons. Underwood was given a Power 5 contract commensurate with his experience level (his SFA salary was just over $400,000). But Underwood also was promised he’d get a raise if he won and elevated the program. He did exactly that, and negotiations for a new deal, although slow, actually had begun.

But Holder apparently didn’t move with any urgency, and now the program has egg on its face.

Yes, the season just ended yesterday. But as CEO of a multi-million dollar corporation like OSU athletics, Holder should have anticipated this. He should have been proactive. He should have been aggressive, and he should have given Underwood assurance — absolute, rock-solid assurance, but without the shortsightedness of a burdensome 10-year contract, like the one he gave to Ford — that a heartfelt and very appreciative raise would be soon headed his way.

Among Big 12 Conference coaches, Underwood’s 2016-17 salary of $1 million ranks above only Texas Tech’s Chris Beard (reportedly $900,000). Underwood was down to make $1.1 million next year, $1.2 million in 2019, $1.4 million in 2020 and $1.6 million in 2021.

After taking OSU to a 20-13 record and a return to the NCAA Tournament this season, after building one of college basketball’s most prolific offenses (the Cowboys ranked sixth in the nation in scoring this year after ranking 303rd last year), Underwood and his camp thought he’d done enough — with Ford’s roster, don’t forget — to merit a salary boost that would take him closer to the conference average of $2.7 million a year.

In today’s market, that’s not asking too much to “Bring the Rowdy Back,” is it?

Apparently, in Holder’s way of thinking, it is.

ESPN’s Jeff Goodman, who first broke the news of Underwood’s departure Saturday afternoon, reported that Illinois would pay Underwood north of $3 million a year. That’s not unexpected. Why should Underwood stick around Stillwater waiting for Holder to open his wallet?

Holder should be applauded for the overall growth of the OSU athletic department under his watch. Just look at the magnificent facilities OSU has built from Boone Pickens’ pockets. Seeing Pickens’ generosity, other donors have followed suit and taken O-State athletics to a place it never dreamed of.

There’s no doubt the former national champion golf coach and OSU alum knows how to raise money. But as an athletic director, Holder’s failings are otherwise stark.

Holder’s previous nadir came in 2009, when he gave Ford a 10-year extension after just one season. As Ford’s future NBA players labored in his system, as losses piled up (he was 63-80 in Big 12 play over eight seasons), and as OSU crowds dwindled to an embarrassing level, even Holder admitted his decision to lock up Ford long-term had become a burden to the program.

Consider also Holder’s ongoing dustups with football coach Mike Gundy.

Gundy authored the program’s only conference championship in the last 40 years, has taken OSU to its only first big-time bowl games since the Eisenhower administration, and has won more games than anyone in school history, and yet Holder can’t get Gundy — a proud OSU alum and record-setting quarterback, for Pistol Pete’s sake — on the same page.

After flirting with jobs at Arkansas and Tennessee in recent years, Gundy last season somehow took a look at the dumpster fire at Baylor.

Gundy currently has a contract extension on his desk, but he refuses to sign it, apparently because of irreconcilable differences in the language of the contract.

Gundy leaving over a petty power struggle with his boss would rightly cost Holder his job.

But this one — low-balling a talented coach like Underwood into taking a middling job like Illinois — is the new reality. This one is now. It happened, and for Holder, it takes the cake.

Jawun Evans was apparently considering returning for his junior season. But with Underwood gone, does Evans want to play for his third coach in three years? No way. He’ll be in the NBA come this summer. That’s too bad. One more year with Evans and Underwood’s incoming recruits could have been special. Now OSU hoops must start all over.

Kansas coach Bill Self is preparing his team to face Michigan State in a Sunday afternoon game at the BOK Center. I asked Self during his press conference on Saturday to weigh in on his alma mater (OSU) losing a coach after one season to his previous employer (Illinois).

“It shocks me,” Self said. “I think it would shock most people, because obviously, Brad was on a roll, I thought, in Stillwater, and a lot of great things had transpired in the short time he’d been there. … Certainly the program is in better shape than it was a year ago.”

And what of Illinois? Self coached there for three years after leaving Tulsa following the 2000 season, and he took the Illini to two co-Big Ten championships and three NCAA Tournament appearances, including one Elite Eight and one Sweet Sixteen before heading to Lawrence.

Weber, the K-State coach currently under fire in Manhattan, guided Illinois to a 210-101 record, two Big Ten titles and six NCAA trips in nine seasons, and John Groce went 95-74 with one NCAA bid in five seasons before he was fired this year. Weber and Groce’s combined conference record was 126-118.

Underwood left OSU for that?

“Well, Illinois is a great basketball job. I was there,” Self said. “There’s no other way to look at it. It’s one of the better jobs in the Big Ten if you look at recruiting base and institution location, exposure, budget. There’s a lot of things about it that are very, very attractive.”

Yes, OSU fell on hard times under Ford. And yes, Illinois may be a sleeping giant.

But is Illinois the type of job an up-and-coming coach takes after just one good year at a school like Oklahoma State?

No, it’s not.

This is strictly on Holder.

Holder is a terrific fundraiser.

But without a home run hire to replace Underwood, this episode significantly calls into question Holder’s competence as an athletic director.
 

pennpoke

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#23
No man, we would rather eat our own, a guy with five ncaa golf titles, than a one hit wonder basket coach from k-state.:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Not to mention, the ones screaming for Holder to be fired for his financial caution are the same chowder heads who screamed for him to be fired for his decision to try to secure a coach who had just won an actual NCAA tournament game and was very likely going to be called home as a head coach at his blue blood alma mater.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good lynching, folks.
 

cowboyethics344

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Apr 2, 2008
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#24
Minimum requirement at Oklahoma State is to make the ncaa tournament (something Ford also did several times). I'm not a Holder fan in terms of the Gundy negotiations...we need to pay him what he wants...but Underwood was here less than a year and signed a contract that he wanted to re-nag on after less than a year!!! What does that tell you about this coaches loyalty to ANY program? He built us up, knew our predicament with the ford contract...demanded double his pay after less than a year anyway...didn't get it...and he split. I won't side with that type of greedy disloyality. Sorry.
Give me a break. We could have a orange power collection basket and get close to half of what underwood wanted. A million is nothing to our big donors. You are telling me with as fragile as our program is that there is no way our alumni wouldn't have got a million to him tomorrow... they could have and holder could have but holder chose to let him go. He cares less about our basketball program because it pales in comparison to the money football brings in. Gundy can flex his muscles and demand more but our basketball program means nothing to holder.
 
Jul 23, 2004
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#25
I'm not going to defend Mike Holder. I'm also not going to crucify him. I don't have any of the facts. I bet none of you on here do either.

So it's suddenly gospel truth when Brad Underwood says "Mike Holder was trying to be cheap," just like when Underwood said, "I love Oklahoma State. I'll be here a long, long time"? Do we ever think Underwood might be trying to put some of his own spin on things?

Remember when certain people were all over Holder for not giving Sean Sutton a fair chance and firing him just because he hated the Suttons? Well, it all came out about Sean's problems a few months later. At the time of Sean's firing, Holder just took, the heat and the criticism. He did not try to publicly disgrace Sean by talking about his problems. He didn't talk about the early morning practices Sean would call for the team and then not show up,for because he couldn't get out of bed. Holder just let all the heat fall on him. I respected him for that.

Has Holder made mistakes? Sure. The Ford contract was a mistake, but many people at the tome thought it was a great move. Some thought Ford was great after Season one and we needed to lock him in.

Holder is a big part of us having Boone Pickens Stadium. He got us Josh Holliday. He has kept us out of debt. He has kept us off of probation.

He has done some good. He has made some mistakes.

Let's wait until all the facts come out on this one until we judge. Let's see who he goes and gets now.

Unless you KNOW facts that truly should be cause for his firing, we should support our own and the man with the job.
 

pennpoke

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#26
John E. Hoover: With Brad Underwood’s shocking departure to Illinois, OSU must examine its AD’s ability to do the job

TULSA — It was fun while it lasted, but the Brad Underwood era is over at Oklahoma State after just one season.

Maybe now OSU will get serious about hiring someone who’s qualified to do the job.

Not the men’s basketball job.

The athletic director job.

Mike Holder just outdid himself by letting Underwood get away to Illinois on Saturday after just one promising season, going beyond even the ridiculous 10-year contract he gave Travis Ford.

Oh, it was so important to put people back in the seats at Gallager-Iba Arena, wasn’t it? It was so important to “Bring the Rowdy Back” and “Pack the House,” right? It was so important to hire a legitimate basketball coach and have a contender again, huh?

It was — until it came time to pay that coach what he’s worth.

What an embarrassment for Oklahoma State.

That’s the bottom line. Holder and the OSU administration were unwilling to pay Underwood what he’s worth, or at least get serious about moving forward in negotiations, and Underwood left because he felt financially disrespected.

Underwood and Holder didn’t reply to multiple interview requests. But both men issued statements.

“We are saddened and disappointed in Brad’s decision to leave Oklahoma State after one year,” Holder said. “We are trying to digest this news. We wish Brad and his family well. In the meantime, we will consider the situation and move forward.”

“Coaching basketball at the University of Illinois is a once-in-lifetime opportunity,” Underwood said. “The players, fans and administration at Oklahoma State have been absolutely incredible, and I want to thank them for the support they’ve given me and my family over the last year. However, during my time at Western Illinois, I always saw the Illinois coaching job as one of the truly best in the nation. I want to thank (athletic director) Josh Whitman for the opportunity to join the Fighting Illini family and look forward to working with him to build a championship program. I can’t wait to get started with our team. Next season can’t get here fast enough for me!”

To be fair to Holder, Underwood was a great hire from Stephen F. Austin, where he led the mid-major Lumberjacks to outrageous success in just three seasons. Underwood was given a Power 5 contract commensurate with his experience level (his SFA salary was just over $400,000). But Underwood also was promised he’d get a raise if he won and elevated the program. He did exactly that, and negotiations for a new deal, although slow, actually had begun.

But Holder apparently didn’t move with any urgency, and now the program has egg on its face.

Yes, the season just ended yesterday. But as CEO of a multi-million dollar corporation like OSU athletics, Holder should have anticipated this. He should have been proactive. He should have been aggressive, and he should have given Underwood assurance — absolute, rock-solid assurance, but without the shortsightedness of a burdensome 10-year contract, like the one he gave to Ford — that a heartfelt and very appreciative raise would be soon headed his way.

Among Big 12 Conference coaches, Underwood’s 2016-17 salary of $1 million ranks above only Texas Tech’s Chris Beard (reportedly $900,000). Underwood was down to make $1.1 million next year, $1.2 million in 2019, $1.4 million in 2020 and $1.6 million in 2021.

After taking OSU to a 20-13 record and a return to the NCAA Tournament this season, after building one of college basketball’s most prolific offenses (the Cowboys ranked sixth in the nation in scoring this year after ranking 303rd last year), Underwood and his camp thought he’d done enough — with Ford’s roster, don’t forget — to merit a salary boost that would take him closer to the conference average of $2.7 million a year.

In today’s market, that’s not asking too much to “Bring the Rowdy Back,” is it?

Apparently, in Holder’s way of thinking, it is.

ESPN’s Jeff Goodman, who first broke the news of Underwood’s departure Saturday afternoon, reported that Illinois would pay Underwood north of $3 million a year. That’s not unexpected. Why should Underwood stick around Stillwater waiting for Holder to open his wallet?

Holder should be applauded for the overall growth of the OSU athletic department under his watch. Just look at the magnificent facilities OSU has built from Boone Pickens’ pockets. Seeing Pickens’ generosity, other donors have followed suit and taken O-State athletics to a place it never dreamed of.

There’s no doubt the former national champion golf coach and OSU alum knows how to raise money. But as an athletic director, Holder’s failings are otherwise stark.

Holder’s previous nadir came in 2009, when he gave Ford a 10-year extension after just one season. As Ford’s future NBA players labored in his system, as losses piled up (he was 63-80 in Big 12 play over eight seasons), and as OSU crowds dwindled to an embarrassing level, even Holder admitted his decision to lock up Ford long-term had become a burden to the program.

Consider also Holder’s ongoing dustups with football coach Mike Gundy.

Gundy authored the program’s only conference championship in the last 40 years, has taken OSU to its only first big-time bowl games since the Eisenhower administration, and has won more games than anyone in school history, and yet Holder can’t get Gundy — a proud OSU alum and record-setting quarterback, for Pistol Pete’s sake — on the same page.

After flirting with jobs at Arkansas and Tennessee in recent years, Gundy last season somehow took a look at the dumpster fire at Baylor.

Gundy currently has a contract extension on his desk, but he refuses to sign it, apparently because of irreconcilable differences in the language of the contract.

Gundy leaving over a petty power struggle with his boss would rightly cost Holder his job.

But this one — low-balling a talented coach like Underwood into taking a middling job like Illinois — is the new reality. This one is now. It happened, and for Holder, it takes the cake.

Jawun Evans was apparently considering returning for his junior season. But with Underwood gone, does Evans want to play for his third coach in three years? No way. He’ll be in the NBA come this summer. That’s too bad. One more year with Evans and Underwood’s incoming recruits could have been special. Now OSU hoops must start all over.

Kansas coach Bill Self is preparing his team to face Michigan State in a Sunday afternoon game at the BOK Center. I asked Self during his press conference on Saturday to weigh in on his alma mater (OSU) losing a coach after one season to his previous employer (Illinois).

“It shocks me,” Self said. “I think it would shock most people, because obviously, Brad was on a roll, I thought, in Stillwater, and a lot of great things had transpired in the short time he’d been there. … Certainly the program is in better shape than it was a year ago.”

And what of Illinois? Self coached there for three years after leaving Tulsa following the 2000 season, and he took the Illini to two co-Big Ten championships and three NCAA Tournament appearances, including one Elite Eight and one Sweet Sixteen before heading to Lawrence.

Weber, the K-State coach currently under fire in Manhattan, guided Illinois to a 210-101 record, two Big Ten titles and six NCAA trips in nine seasons, and John Groce went 95-74 with one NCAA bid in five seasons before he was fired this year. Weber and Groce’s combined conference record was 126-118.

Underwood left OSU for that?

“Well, Illinois is a great basketball job. I was there,” Self said. “There’s no other way to look at it. It’s one of the better jobs in the Big Ten if you look at recruiting base and institution location, exposure, budget. There’s a lot of things about it that are very, very attractive.”

Yes, OSU fell on hard times under Ford. And yes, Illinois may be a sleeping giant.

But is Illinois the type of job an up-and-coming coach takes after just one good year at a school like Oklahoma State?

No, it’s not.

This is strictly on Holder.

Holder is a terrific fundraiser.

But without a home run hire to replace Underwood, this episode significantly calls into question Holder’s competence as an athletic director.

Unless Hoover knows more than he likely does (he admits he got no response from either party), this is sensationalistic journalism at best. Holder moved with no sense of urgency? You mean he didn't start negotiating before the season was complete? You mean he should have been talking raises during the season? You mean 12 hours shouldn't be allowed to pass after a one game bow-out from the tourney before he offered him a multi million dollar raise?

Utter ridiculousness. Underwood had exactly one job to do and that was coach our team and get us ready for the tourney, for the money he and his agent negotiated last year. It's apparent now he was not doing his one and only job without some serious negotiating going on at the same time.

Good riddance.
 
Apr 2, 2008
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#27
I have to agree with the assessment of Underwood. He played the I love OSU tune and beat the GI drum but after 1 year he wants more money? I agree he deserved a bonus but it is incredibly low for him to leave for the highest bidder after 1 season. This has to have been in the works for quite some time. He's a snake.
 

Jostate

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#28
“Coaching basketball at the University of Illinois is a once-in-lifetime opportunity,” Underwood said. “The players, fans and administration at Oklahoma State have been absolutely incredible, and I want to thank them for the support they’ve given me and my family over the last year. However, during my time at Western Illinois, I always saw the Illinois coaching job as one of the truly best in the nation. I want to thank (athletic director) Josh Whitman for the opportunity to join the Fighting Illini family and look forward to working with him to build a championship program. I can’t wait to get started with our team. Next season can’t get here fast enough for me!”
.
Does this sound exactly like how he described the OSU job?

The point of the article is correct. We lowballed a coach and it cost us.
 
Dec 26, 2011
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#30
That's the last straw. Holder needs to go unless we announce Bill Self. Like others before me said, we didn't even have to fork over 3 million, and he deserved AT LEAST average pay (what he requested). Terrible business move. We bluffed with no backup

My choice would be Greg Marshall, but apparently we can't even come close to paying what Wichita State can. This is horsesh...
 
Apr 14, 2008
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#31
This is all squarely on Holder. He first overreacted and botched the Ford 10-year extension deal, and now the aftershock has him paralyzed to pay a coach what he's worth.

He's nearly run off Gundy three times. It seems like it's only a matter of time before Holder slow plays Gundy one too many times.

Those defending Holder can have their great tennis, track, and tiddlywinks programs. You can't be an AD at a major university and not keep your football and men's basketball coaches happy.

Fire Holder!
 
Dec 26, 2011
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#32
I have to agree with the assessment of Underwood. He played the I love OSU tune and beat the GI drum but after 1 year he wants more money? I agree he deserved a bonus but it is incredibly low for him to leave for the highest bidder after 1 season. This has to have been in the works for quite some time. He's a snake.
We might be lifelong cowboy fans and alums, but he's not. This wasn't a surprise either. It was known that we would renegotiate after year 1. His request wasn't unreasonable; what we paid him was a slap in the face.

Guy above me nailed it. Holder was snake bit after the ford fiasco and did a compete 180. Over corrected to a fault
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#33
I'll reserve judgement on Coach Holder until all of the details come out. I certainly ripped him for giving Ford a lifetime contract without proving himself. If BU was asking for the same thing, I can't blame him for not making the same mistake twice, even if we lost him over it.

On the surface this looks really bad though. Coach Underwood deserved a decent bump in pay. The main mistake with the Ford contract was the length, not the money. I'm not sure if contract length was even in play here though.
 

ksupoke

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#34
Unless you have inside information you don't really have any idea. Just saw where they are paying Underwood $3 million a year...not sure we wanted to match that for a guy willing to look around after ONE year. If he's gone, I have less respect for him than Holder, he signed a contract and wanted to one up it after one year...he moved his family knowing what his contract was. He made over $1 million dollars for LESS than one years work. The greed of college athletics coaches evidentially has no bounds. Look, Holder may have screwed up big time, but you really want to have an AD who actually has power...if you don't coaches run ruff shod over programs and you end up with NCAA violations. Today sucks, but tomorrow will come and hopefully we will have a new more loyal basketball coach ASAP. Holders statement wasn't one of someone who expected this coach to be gone after one year. He expressed shock and good wishes for him and his family.
Horse shit, I keep seeing this from you and others, BU is 54 he's not like one of the 30 or 40 something wonder boys from a low-mid major he's starting to reach his September, he was given generational money / guaranteed, if you or anyone says at his age you wouldn't do this then I think you are kidding yourself. MH it would seem is appropriately gun shy but that's no reason to trash Underwood for taking a 6 yr guarantee I would bet you if Holder had gotten close it wouldn't have come to this and assuming he didn't I don't blame Underwood at all. Add- if there were other issues then it was just a matter of time anyway.
 
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Nov 16, 2013
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#36
Minimum requirement at Oklahoma State is to make the ncaa tournament (something Ford also did several times). I'm not a Holder fan in terms of the Gundy negotiations...we need to pay him what he wants...but Underwood was here less than a year and signed a contract that he wanted to re-nag on after less than a year!!! What does that tell you about this coaches loyalty to ANY program? He built us up, knew our predicament with the ford contract...demanded double his pay after less than a year anyway...didn't get it...and he split. I won't side with that type of greedy disloyality. Sorry.
I think the more telling factor in this is that Underwood did the teenage girl thing and announced it on Twitter. When the players are not aware and find out through social media that does say quite a bit about either your character or you know you are doing a bad thing, be a man and face up to it.

Holder screwed up, but there may be things that we don't know. We are still reaping the wages of the benchsitter that should not be mentioned. We probably might as well get ready to have another small college guy that is going to get the hell kicked out of him
 
Dec 15, 2004
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#37
it saddens me that OSU now has vocal fans who are nothing more than ou fans wearing orange............undereducated and moronic............

same guy responsible for hiring Josh Holliday AND Rob Walton............

same guy that donates most or all of his paycheck back into the POSSE..........

same guy that is responsible for hiring both tennis coaches...................

athletic department has been in black numbers for more years in the last 12 than ever since the 1960's combined.........

I get that he has basically no personality, but his business acumen is top-notch, and his fiscal responsibility is unmatched. He made a major mistake with Ford's second contract, but he knows that was a mistake, which he wasn't about to make again.

Bottom line, if Underwood did indeed accept the Illinois job without at the very least notifying Oklahoma State of that offer, then he is a worthless piece of crap, PERIOD. There is no further discussion needed. The person that posted his quote earlier in another thread, about (paraphrasing) being in the "right place, tradition, blah blah blah, not going anyplace, is nothing more than a charleton and liar.

and this comment with Underwood's Illinois press-release: "Coaching basketball at the University of Illinois is a once-in-lifetime opportunity," Underwood said. "The players, fans and administration at Oklahoma State have been absolutely incredible, and I want to thank them for the support they've given me and my family over the last year. However, during my time at Western Illinois, I always saw the Illinois coaching job as one of the truly best in the nation. I want to thank Josh Whitman for the opportunity to join the Fighting Illini family and look forward to working with him to build a championship program. I can't wait to get started with our team. Next season can't get here fast enough for me!"
Isn't the underlined, highlighted portion basically the same rhetoric he used last year in his introduction in GIA????? This guy is an absolute disingenuous snake

As Kevin O'Leary would say on Shark Tank to Underwood...."you're dead to me"
 
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Feb 17, 2007
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#38
I hope to goodness Holder offered a base of $2 million dollars plus a year on the contract. That would get him quite a bit closer to the league average and if he made the Sweet 16 next year, that would take him past the average.

This would provide a quick and realistic path to BU's goal of league average plus it continues to pay for the performance you are expecting. It protects both sides.

If BU balked at that, you need to ask him to point to where he took the program further than Ford. So far, you can point to non wins and losses improvement to the program and the new contract would reward that with the future contract bring focused on the tangible progression in the tournament. Holder could have gone up a bit more but not much.

If BU left that on the table, I'd have a harder time blaming Holder although he does need to work on his relationship skills with his major sport coaches.

I look for an announcement soon on the new baseball stadium to change the narrative. If Holder were to lose Holliday, I'm not sure there is anything that could save his job.
 

Rack

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#39
Horse shit, I keep seeing this from you and others, BU is 54 he's not like one of the 30 or 40 something wonder boys from a low-mid major he's starting to reach his September, he was given generational money / guaranteed, if you or anyone says at his age you wouldn't do this then I think you are kidding yourself. MH it would seem is appropriately gun shy but that's no reason to trash Underwood for taking a 6 yr guarantee I would bet you if Holder had gotten close it wouldn't have come to this and assuming he didn't I don't blame Underwood at all. Add- if there were other issues then it was just a matter of time anyway.
RA said they were only $200K apart...but RA so who knows. Says we offered $2 million which would have been about a $900K raise, nearly double what he was being paid and getting him much closer to league average which he would surpass with a sweet sixteen next year. If this is true we did more than enough to keep coach Underwood and he is indeed slime.
 
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ksupoke

We don't need no, thot kuntrol
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Feb 16, 2011
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dark sarcasm in the classroom
#40
Here's a thought maybe there's nobody to blame, Holder didn't want to do a deal he wasn't comfortable with and Underwood was given an offer to good to refuse. Sometimes that's how it works, no fault, no blame just no meeting of the minds. Again if it was more than money then it was just putting off the inevitable.
 
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