[NSFW] The GOAT rapper is alive!

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HeartLike_JohnStarks

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#21
Tupac was very good at what he did, there's really no denying that. But the popularity of gangster rap and the idolization of criminals like Tupak Shakur has had major negative impacts on society, most notably among African American youth.

You call him a poet, I call him a violent gang member whose influence is just part of a 20 year trend of teaching kids that being a criminal is cool, degradation of women is cool, disrespecting authority is cool, gangs are cool, drugs are cool, racism is cool (unless it's racism against blacks of course), and life should be all about money and material possessions.

In other words, stop putting criminals on a pedestal. Shakur was a gang member, a rapist, a misogynist, and overall just a violent p.o.s. in general.
You do realize that the Beastie Boys were quietly one of the first rappers to talk about those types of things and one of the most influential artists when it came to that right?

Yeah, there's no doubt his lyrics talk about those stuff, if you listen to them he's relaying his life story and experiences and not necessarily promoting them (the hard thugging mentality is prominent though). He grew up around those kind of environment and he speaks about them , and most of them was intended to be relate-able to a specific demographic of audience. Things like growing up poor and seeing the depressing atmosphere and scenery of the projects/ghetto were things I experienced growing up, although nowhere near as violent and my memory of those times are kinda blurr cause I've put em in the backburner for so long (but I never forget where I came from though)
Things that may sound degrading women might seem like such, but remember that these women might be what he was surrounded with growing up. (hood girls have a lot of attitude)

A lot of other times he's talking about trying to usher peace between gangs and black on black crime, and even promoting world peace and unity and respecting your mother.


Read this article and maybe it will atleast provide another perspective
 

zachya

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#22
I take it you don't like hip-hop/rap whatsoever.
...I like it when it meant something, not this mass produced jackassery that's as watered down as any other music genre right now...I admittedly have had little exposure to the man, and was genuinely curious as to why he's held in such high regard...I think (meaning this is pure opinion) that his untimely death has artificially inflated his stature...I'll try to have a listen though in the coming days...
 

HeartLike_JohnStarks

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#23
And boy....lol if you think Tupac is bad, you haven't listened to the s&&t that is playing around now. Tupac would personally go murder everyone of them for giving mainstream hip hop an even worse rep.

Its easy to just judge him by his image and rep and ignore how much of intellectual he truly was- beyond just his art form.
I will say this, he DID put on an image as a rapper (most do), and try to act and talk a certain way. But this interview of him as a 17 year old gives you a glimpse of the true person behind the mis-understood public image.



Tell me what 17 year old talks and thinks like that, much less one growing up in his type of environment.

People don't realize that he actually went through legit education and was very enlightened and a very well spoken and smart guy
 

HeartLike_JohnStarks

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#24
...I like it when it meant something, not this mass produced jackassery that's as watered down as any other music genre right now...I admittedly have had little exposure to the man, and was genuinely curious as to why he's held in such high regard...I think (meaning this is pure opinion) that his untimely death has artificially inflated his stature...I'll try to have a listen though in the coming days...
Man mainstream music is wack nowadays.....regardless of genre, except if you're into the new age instrumental rock BS. (aka most of those talk show guest bands)

Likewise, if you want to find truly good and genuine music, you have to look underground mostly.
 

OrangeAggie

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#26
You do realize that the Beastie Boys were quietly one of the first rappers to talk about those types of things and one of the most influential artists when it came to that right?
What difference does that make? You're trying to make a point here by bringing up a group I made no mention of. What point is it exactly?

Yeah, there's no doubt his lyrics talk about those stuff, if you listen to them he's relaying his life story and experiences and not necessarily promoting them (the hard thugging mentality is prominent though). He grew up around those kind of environment and he speaks about them , and most of them was intended to be relate-able to a specific demographic of audience. Things like growing up poor and seeing the depressing atmosphere and scenery of the projects/ghetto were things I experienced growing up, although nowhere near as violent and my memory of those times are kinda blurr cause I've put em in the backburner for so long (but I never forget where I came from though)
Yet, the glorification of gangs and "thug life" by Tupac and his contemporaries have made it much more difficult to combat that type of inner-city environment. It's made it worse by giving adolescents role models whose priorities are completely selfish and actions and messages are full of violence and hate.

What is there to defend here? Every time I accuse rappers and rap music of these things I have people like you that suggest that I just "don't get it". Trust me, I get it.

Things that may sound degrading women might seem like such, but remember that these women might be what he was surrounded with growing up. (hood girls have a lot of attitude)

A lot of other times he's talking about trying to usher peace between gangs and black on black crime, and even promoting world peace and unity and respecting your mother.
Yeah, being a convicted rapist is totally cool as long as you respect yo mama. :rolleyes:
 

OrangeAggie

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#27
And boy....lol if you think Tupac is bad, you haven't listened to the s&&t that is playing around now. Tupac would personally go murder everyone of them for giving mainstream hip hop an even worse rep.

Its easy to just judge him by his image and rep and ignore how much of intellectual he truly was- beyond just his art form.
I will say this, he DID put on an image as a rapper (most do), and try to act and talk a certain way. But this interview of him as a 17 year old gives you a glimpse of the true person behind the mis-understood public image.



Tell me what 17 year old talks and thinks like that, much less one growing up in his type of environment.

People don't realize that he actually went through legit education and was very enlightened and a very well spoken and smart guy

I've seen that video before, and either he was misrepresenting himself for that interview, or he purposefully created a thug, gangster-like image for himself to sell music. Interesting how eloquent he was then, yet when he opens his mouth to rap it's "f***" this, and "n*****" that.

Shooting cops, raping women, and beating up people who you don't like sure exhibits that maturity he speaks so passionately about.
 
Feb 28, 2007
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#31
Tupac was very good at what he did, there's really no denying that. But the popularity of gangster rap and the idolization of criminals like Tupak Shakur has had major negative impacts on society, most notably among African American youth.

You call him a poet, I call him a violent gang member whose influence is just part of a 20 year trend of teaching kids that being a criminal is cool, degradation of women is cool, disrespecting authority is cool, gangs are cool, drugs are cool, racism is cool (unless it's racism against blacks of course), and life should be all about money and material possessions.

In other words, stop putting criminals on a pedestal. Shakur was a gang member, a rapist, a misogynist, and overall just a violent p.o.s. in general.
I see. The argument is only artists with high moral values can be considered great at their craft? Elvis was a drug addict. So was Johnny Cash. Frank Sinatra had mob friends. How many times have you enjoyed their music? How many times have you sung "Ring of Fire" or "Folsom Prison Blues" while having a beer with your friends?

I don't look to Tupac as my moral compass. I don't have a mural of him on my living room wall. I am fan of rap since the early 80's when it was Grandmaster Caz and Curtis Blow. I could go into it further about "gangsta rap" but that's not the point of this response. I was asked what makes him great and I responded in kind because despite what you may like, Tupac changed the game.

I came from nothing and made something of myself so I guess I relate to that aspect of rap. If it's not cool for you then so be it.
 

Lafferty Daniel

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#32
Tupac was very good at what he did, there's really no denying that. But the popularity of gangster rap and the idolization of criminals like Tupak Shakur has had major negative impacts on society, most notably among African American youth.

You call him a poet, I call him a violent gang member whose influence is just part of a 20 year trend of teaching kids that being a criminal is cool, degradation of women is cool, disrespecting authority is cool, gangs are cool, drugs are cool, racism is cool (unless it's racism against blacks of course), and life should be all about money and material possessions.

In other words, stop putting criminals on a pedestal. Shakur was a gang member, a rapist, a misogynist, and overall just a violent p.o.s. in general.
Well, might as well quit enjoying everything then, right?

No more sports because the majority cheat on their wives/girlfriends. No more movies because they all do drugs and have sex parties. Same thing with most musicians.

If someone isn't smart enough to separate music from reality, then they are going to be influenced by the bad no matter what. If someone goes out and kills someone because Tupac rapped about it, they were probably going to end up jail at some point anyway.
 

OrangeAggie

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#33
I see. The argument is only artists with high moral values can be considered great at their craft? Elvis was a drug addict. So was Johnny Cash. Frank Sinatra had mob friends. How many times have you enjoyed their music? How many times have you sung "Ring of Fire" or "Folsom Prison Blues" while having a beer with your friends?

I don't look to Tupac as my moral compass. I don't have a mural of him on my living room wall. I am fan of rap since the early 80's when it was Grandmaster Caz and Curtis Blow. I could go into it further about "gangsta rap" but that's not the point of this response. I was asked what makes him great and I responded in kind because despite what you may like, Tupac changed the game.

I came from nothing and made something of myself so I guess I relate to that aspect of rap. If it's not cool for you then so be it.
If you can't see the moral distinction between Tupac and Elvis/Frank Sinatra, I'm not sure how far this debate can truly go. That said, it isn't the individual morals that are the issue, it's the message.
 
Feb 28, 2007
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#34
If you can't see the moral distinction between Tupac and Elvis/Frank Sinatra, I'm not sure how far this debate can truly go. That said, it isn't the individual morals that are the issue, it's the message.
Ahhh, the moral distinction. I noticed you conveniently left out Johhny Cash because he sang about drugs and killing people.

Let me give you a little background of myself so I can make my point clearer. My biological father was a good 'old boy who listened to Ernest Tubb and Conway Twitty and he also beat my mother. My stepdad listened to Black Sabbath. I'm not sure the message behind "Rat Salad" or "Electric Funeral" was positivity but I know he was an amazing father to me. He married my mother when she had 4 kids and made $75 a week and still works as hard as any man I have ever met. We lived in a predominately black neighborhood (poor people have to stick together) so while I am white I know a little bit of what I speak. You speak as if the black community was Shangri La and Tupac came along and influenced a new culture. Trust me, the problems existed long before gangsta rap. These communties weren't going to get incrementally better if rap never existed. I guess the government could have used their resources to pipe in Pat Boone over loud speakers instead of keeping drugs running through the community like they did in South Central.
 

HeartLike_JohnStarks

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#35
Ahhh, the moral distinction. I noticed you conveniently left out Johhny Cash because he sang about drugs and killing people.

Let me give you a little background of myself so I can make my point clearer. My biological father was a good 'old boy who listened to Ernest Tubb and Conway Twitty and he also beat my mother. My stepdad listened to Black Sabbath. I'm not sure the message behind "Rat Salad" or "Electric Funeral" was positivity but I know he was an amazing father to me. He married my mother when she had 4 kids and made $75 a week and still works as hard as any man I have ever met. We lived in a predominately black neighborhood (poor people have to stick together) so while I am white I know a little bit of what I speak. You speak as if the black community was Shangri La and Tupac came along and influenced a new culture. Trust me, the problems existed long before gangsta rap. These communties weren't going to get incrementally better if rap never existed. I guess the government could have used their resources to pipe in Pat Boone over loud speakers instead of keeping drugs running through the community like they did in South Central.
we have an eerily similar background here. I also grew up in a typical.ghetto with predominantly black folk where 7 11's were one of the nicer buildings (and most shady) and the chuuuch was right down the street. I also grew up listening only to urbanusic but as I moved on.up the social ladder and met new.friends I began to appreciate other music genre like classic rock and Blues/ jazz.

And I was just going to post what you just said. Ghettos and their.issues existed long before.rap or Tupac came along. I will.admit that particular style of rap doesnt try hard to break the cycle amd wont be confused with uplifting Christian rap, but it aint the reason for the vicuous cycle and life of the urban ghettos. It will also take much much more.than some words and."model" rap figure to change things
 
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#36
we have an eerily similar background here. I also grew up in a typical.ghetto with predominantly black folk where 7 11's were one of the nicer buildings (and most shady) and the chuuuch was right down the street. I also grew up listening only to urbanusic but as I moved on.up the social ladder and met new.friends I began to appreciate other music genre like classic rock and Blues/ jazz.

And I was just going to post what you just said. Ghettos and their.issues existed long before.rap or Tupac came along. I will.admit that particular style of rap doesnt try hard to break the cycle amd wont be confused with uplifting Christian rap, but it aint the reason for the vicuous cycle and life of the urban ghettos. It will also take much much more.than some words and."model" rap figure to change things
Ha, they do sound familiar and I definitely feel you about climbing the ladder and being introduced to new things. When you're poor you try and do what you can to get as far away from it as you can. I chose books but not everyone does.

I agree with you regarding Pac. He had some uplifting tracks and some socially conscious records but he also made music that was self-serving as well-like most artists do.
 

OrangeAggie

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#38
Ahhh, the moral distinction. I noticed you conveniently left out Johhny Cash because he sang about drugs and killing people.

There was nothing convenient about it. I left out Johnny Cash because I've never really listened to him and don't know enough about him or his music to comment. I find it interesting that you assume I'm a country music fan. I'm not.

Let me give you a little background of myself so I can make my point clearer. My biological father was a good 'old boy who listened to Ernest Tubb and Conway Twitty and he also beat my mother. My stepdad listened to Black Sabbath. I'm not sure the message behind "Rat Salad" or "Electric Funeral" was positivity but I know he was an amazing father to me. He married my mother when she had 4 kids and made $75 a week and still works as hard as any man I have ever met. We lived in a predominately black neighborhood (poor people have to stick together) so while I am white I know a little bit of what I speak. You speak as if the black community was Shangri La and Tupac came along and influenced a new culture. Trust me, the problems existed long before gangsta rap.
When did I say that Tupac and rap caused the issues in the black community? I've specifically said that they only reinforce and glorify that behavior, thus allowing it to continue. Your argument that "we can't make it better so we might as well make it worse" is ridiculous.

A poor kid growing up in the ghetto doesn't need role models that tell him that being a criminal, joining a gang, doing drugs, screwing hoes and bitches, and killing cops is not only okay, but pretty damn cool. Do you disagree with this?

There are much, much poorer communities all over the world that have very low crime and violence, so don't tell me that the cycle of poverty is the sole cause of these issues.

These communties weren't going to get incrementally better if rap never existed. I guess the government could have used their resources to pipe in Pat Boone over loud speakers instead of keeping drugs running through the community like they did in South Central.
Nope, that would only succeed in making them brain dead. Still, drinking beer and fishing is a hell of a lot better than smoking crack and robbing liquor stores.
 
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#40
There was nothing convenient about it. I left out Johnny Cash because I've never really listened to him and don't know enough about him or his music to comment. I find it interesting that you assume I'm a country music fan. I'm not.
I don't really consider Johnny Cash a quote/unquote country artist. He sort of transcended that label. I wasn't assuming you were a Jeff Foxworthy but that was the way YOU took it.


When did I say that Tupac and rap caused the issues in the black community? I've specifically said that they only reinforce and glorify that behavior, thus allowing it to continue. Your argument that "we can't make it better so we might as well make it worse" is ridiculous.

That wasn't my argument of "we can't make it better so...". My contention was the problems existing in the black community were not greatly exacerbated by a rap artist. It's this simple. Most of rap bought in the last 20+ years is by white kids. Somehow it hasn't turned their surburban neighborhoods to crime-laden areas so its obviously not the music.

A poor kid growing up in the ghetto doesn't need role models that tell him that being a criminal, joining a gang, doing drugs, screwing hoes and bitches, and killing cops is not only okay, but pretty damn cool. Do you disagree with this?
No, Pac is not a role model and I have never said he is. They need to look up to someone like Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Barak Obama. He is the greatest role model ever for a youthful black kids but you can't throw a stone in the this state without him being trashed like he is some unpatriotic heathen-especially on this board.

There are much, much poorer communities all over the world that have very low crime and violence, so don't tell me that the cycle of poverty is the sole cause of these issues.
How many poor neighborhoods have you lived in OA?


Nope, that would only succeed in making them brain dead. Still, drinking beer and fishing is a hell of a lot better than smoking crack and robbing liquor stores.

You are the one that took this thread from being about a rapper that raps well to being some warped social commentary. If you don't like him then go away. I don't need to hear your opinion. I'm sure I don't like whoever it is you like (Englebert Humperdink, Donny Osmond, etc...) Again, I think Tupac is a great RAPPER.