Real Underwood coaching evaluation

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Jul 2, 2013
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#1
The sky is not falling coaching wise. It may be player wise, we may lose recruits, have transfers and Jawun may go pro.

All of that said, Underwood was in way over his head. I emailed back and forth with the man several times. We talked about what he should be doing offensively. It was clear there that man was insanely stubborn. The 0-6 stretch was not because of the players it was completely on him. He could not adapt to the structure of this team. Danny Henderson saved this team and final convinced Underwood to change our defensive scheme. Underwood had to be convinced over and over again. He was so stubborn he wanted to stay with the up the line and down the line strategy no matter what even after we won.

The facts:
1: He had to be convinced to change a defensive scheme that was horribly flawed for his current team. It took him a painful 0-6 conference skid to change it.
2: My conversations with him were on how horribly he used Forte in the middle part of the season. The man had zero understanding how to use Forte and Juwan together.
3: 1-7 against the top 4 teams in our conference.
4- WVU game philosophy first time around, would not listen to his ast. coaches about the way to beat them. He was convinced slowing the pace of the game after made baskets was the right thing to do. We beat them the second time because coaches made him stop being so stubborn. He let his team inbound the ball when the press was not set and when it was ran press breakers.
5- Every single elite offensive team besides WS he lost to.

There a numerous other times this team under performed because of the coach. His leaving may have screwed us player wise but honestly he wasn't a great coach. If you believe he is, then you are hanging on the he is a Shaka Smart type guy limp, a coach who must have his perfect guys or else he is a fish out of water. I can see that point but he isn't Bill Self and not worth top 10 money in NCAA.
 

pokes16

Territorial Marshal
Oct 16, 2003
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#2
The sky is not falling coaching wise. It may be player wise, we may lose recruits, have transfers and Jawun may go pro.

All of that said, Underwood was in way over his head. I emailed back and forth with the man several times. We talked about what he should be doing offensively. It was clear there that man was insanely stubborn. The 0-6 stretch was not because of the players it was completely on him. He could not adapt to the structure of this team. Danny Henderson saved this team and final convinced Underwood to change our defensive scheme. Underwood had to be convinced over and over again. He was so stubborn he wanted to stay with the up the line and down the line strategy no matter what even after we won.

The facts:
1: He had to be convinced to change a defensive scheme that was horribly flawed for his current team. It took him a painful 0-6 conference skid to change it.
2: My conversations with him were on how horribly he used Forte in the middle part of the season. The man had zero understanding how to use Forte and Juwan together.
3: 1-7 against the top 4 teams in our conference.
4- WVU game philosophy first time around, would not listen to his ast. coaches about the way to beat them. He was convinced slowing the pace of the game after made baskets was the right thing to do. We beat them the second time because coaches made him stop being so stubborn. He let his team inbound the ball when the press was not set and when it was ran press breakers.
5- Every single elite offensive team besides WS he lost to.

There a numerous other times this team under performed because of the coach. His leaving may have screwed us player wise but honestly he wasn't a great coach. If you believe he is, then you are hanging on the he is a Shaka Smart type guy limp, a coach who must have his perfect guys or else he is a fish out of water. I can see that point but he isn't Bill Self and not worth top 10 money in NCAA.
Must admit, I never did think the on the line up the line defense fit our team. Just not athletic enough at every position to be able to do that.

Thanks for the great insights. What are your thoughts about his assistants? Anyone there worthy of a promotion?
 
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Jul 2, 2013
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#4
Must admit, I never did think the on the line up the line defense fit our team. Just not athletic enough at every position to be able to do that.

Thanks for the great insights. What are your thoughts about his assistants? Anyone there worthy of a promotion?
Loved them all never had any interaction with Boyton though. I love Danny Henderson and hope the new coach retains him. No one should get promoted because I think it would be a crazier hire than the Doug haters.
Well, alright then. Do you need a job?
I wish, I asked Underwood if I could help with the advance scouting reports. That's more of my niche anymore.
 
Mar 19, 2017
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Not here.
#5
There a numerous other times this team under performed because of the coach. His leaving may have screwed us player wise but honestly he wasn't a great coach. If you believe he is, then you are hanging on the he is a Shaka Smart type guy limp, a coach who must have his perfect guys or else he is a fish out of water. I can see that point but he isn't Bill Self and not worth top 10 money in NCAA.
This was an outstanding post. It sounds like Holder was correct to not give into Underwood's demands.

It also sounds like Underwood has an ego issue if he is so resistant to adjusting to the strengths of his personnel, even as he loses ballgames. Illinois is going to regret overpaying for his services.
 

pokes16

Territorial Marshal
Oct 16, 2003
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#7
This was an outstanding post. It sounds like Holder was correct to not give into Underwood's demands.

It also sounds like Underwood has an ego issue if he is so resistant to adjusting to the strengths of his personnel, even as he loses ballgames. Illinois is going to regret overpaying for his services.
Was doing some reading and found a quote from Coach K.

You have to adapt what you do based on who you are. In teaching, you must remember that no group or individual is the same as who you taught the day before, the year before, or the decade before. Your plan has to suit who you and your team are right now.
 

Jostate

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Jun 24, 2005
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#8
When I read the first post I expected a little different 2nd, 3rd, and 4th posts.

I assume you didn't go by "Stool boy" when you emailed but why would a head coach of a Big 12 team change his style because of an email? I get that it wasn't working but this idea that some guy (Stool boy) emailed him and he's supposed to listen to them is really pretty funny.
 

tmcats

Wrangler
Feb 13, 2014
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#9
When I read the first post I expected a little different 2nd, 3rd, and 4th posts.

I assume you didn't go by "Stool boy" when you emailed but why would a head coach of a Big 12 team change his style because of an email? I get that it wasn't working but this idea that some guy (Stool boy) emailed him and he's supposed to listen to them is really pretty funny.
that's why i asked if stoolboy is a former oSu coach. the whole opening post was a bit bazaar otherwise.
 

pennpoke

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Feb 16, 2012
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#12
The sky is not falling coaching wise. It may be player wise, we may lose recruits, have transfers and Jawun may go pro.

All of that said, Underwood was in way over his head. I emailed back and forth with the man several times. We talked about what he should be doing offensively. It was clear there that man was insanely stubborn. The 0-6 stretch was not because of the players it was completely on him. He could not adapt to the structure of this team. Danny Henderson saved this team and final convinced Underwood to change our defensive scheme. Underwood had to be convinced over and over again. He was so stubborn he wanted to stay with the up the line and down the line strategy no matter what even after we won.

The facts:
1: He had to be convinced to change a defensive scheme that was horribly flawed for his current team. It took him a painful 0-6 conference skid to change it.
2: My conversations with him were on how horribly he used Forte in the middle part of the season. The man had zero understanding how to use Forte and Juwan together.
3: 1-7 against the top 4 teams in our conference.
4- WVU game philosophy first time around, would not listen to his ast. coaches about the way to beat them. He was convinced slowing the pace of the game after made baskets was the right thing to do. We beat them the second time because coaches made him stop being so stubborn. He let his team inbound the ball when the press was not set and when it was ran press breakers.
5- Every single elite offensive team besides WS he lost to.

There a numerous other times this team under performed because of the coach. His leaving may have screwed us player wise but honestly he wasn't a great coach. If you believe he is, then you are hanging on the he is a Shaka Smart type guy limp, a coach who must have his perfect guys or else he is a fish out of water. I can see that point but he isn't Bill Self and not worth top 10 money in NCAA.
I know everyone in the media loved to fawn all over him for turning the team around, but I was amazed that it took 6 losses in conference to make a simple change that so completely turned our season around. Very interesting stuff. Some of these stories are starting to sound like there's a common theme.

Sounds like we need to hire Henderson. Now.
 
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Jul 2, 2013
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#15
Where even a stool boy can be a big 12 coach
I'm not a former OSU coach. Alum yes. Knew the Ford staff decently and know a few people in the athletic department.
When I read the first post I expected a little different 2nd, 3rd, and 4th posts.

I assume you didn't go by "Stool boy" when you emailed but why would a head coach of a Big 12 team change his style because of an email? I get that it wasn't working but this idea that some guy (Stool boy) emailed him and he's supposed to listen to them is really pretty funny.
After Maryland game I was angry and then the WVU game happened, I was pissed. I know OSU has all emails of its coaching personal and students in the IT directory. Looked it up and emailed him. My friends said I was a moron and he wouldn't answer. Sure enough like 45 mins later he responds. We emailed back and forth for a week or so. It was bizarre but its true.
 

InTheKnow

Usually Last to Know
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Apr 1, 2007
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#16
When I read the first post I expected a little different 2nd, 3rd, and 4th posts.

I assume you didn't go by "Stool boy" when you emailed but why would a head coach of a Big 12 team change his style because of an email? I get that it wasn't working but this idea that some guy (Stool boy) emailed him and he's supposed to listen to them is really pretty funny.
I do that kind of stuff on a regular basis. I don't expect anyone to listen to me - but mainly to get crap off my chest. You might be surprised at some of the responses I get.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#17
Here's my real world coaching evaluation of Coach Underwood:

The Good:
1. We went from 12-20 a year ago, to 20-13 this season. (Injuries should be factored in.)
2. We finished in the top half of the Big 12. We've only done that twice in the decade prior.
3. We won the most road games in a season since Coach Sutton was here.
4. The positive energy resulted in a 44% increase in attendance.
5. We saw Carroll & Solomon make strides we didn't see them make under the previous regime.
6. We finished the season as the 5th best scoring offense in the nation. That's the highest ranking I can ever remember. We scored more points per game than the Final Four team of 2003-04 that had several NBA players on the roster.
7. Up until the moment he left, Coach Underwood did everything right. He fit the culture of our program perfectly. I don't know anyone who had anything bad to say about his personality.

The Bad:
1. He was way too stubborn defensively. He didn't adjust his system to fit the personnel. That resulted in a few games early in conference season that we probably should've won. I understand the stubbornness to some extent. He utilized that system at SFA to produce a top 20 defense. But he should've made adjustments here faster.
2. He demanded a top 10 salary without earning it. Then he bolted when we refused to pay it.

I was really excited about Coach Underwood. He did a great job turning this program around and producing a positive energy moving forward. We don't really know how good or bad he was though, because he didn't get a chance to coach a roster full of his own players. Coach Holder made a business decision I support. You shouldn't pay a top 10 salary to an unproven coach. We're in a significantly better position than we were a year ago. We need to go out and find a proven coach to replace BU and keep the positive momentum of this program moving forward.
 

pokes16

Territorial Marshal
Oct 16, 2003
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#18
I would bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut that if we make the tourney next year and so does iu that the committee will figure out a way for us to meet.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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#19
I mentioned this on another thread. Last season Juwan was hurt and missed a lot of games and Forte was out all but 3 games. Now put them both back in the lineup healthy and we do a LOT better. It is hard to tell what would have happened last year vs this year if everybody was healthy. Our scoring was a lot better than it has been in the past though.
 
Feb 10, 2014
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Baltimore, MD
#20
Here's my real world coaching evaluation of Coach Underwood:

The Good:
1. We went from 12-20 a year ago, to 20-13 this season. (Injuries should be factored in.)
2. We finished in the top half of the Big 12. We've only done that twice in the decade prior.
3. We won the most road games in a season since Coach Sutton was here.
4. The positive energy resulted in a 44% increase in attendance.
5. We saw Carroll & Solomon make strides we didn't see them make under the previous regime.
6. We finished the season as the 5th best scoring offense in the nation. That's the highest ranking I can ever remember. We scored more points per game than the Final Four team of 2003-04 that had several NBA players on the roster.
7. Up until the moment he left, Coach Underwood did everything right. He fit the culture of our program perfectly. I don't know anyone who had anything bad to say about his personality.

The Bad:
1. He was way too stubborn defensively. He didn't adjust his system to fit the personnel. That resulted in a few games early in conference season that we probably should've won. I understand the stubbornness to some extent. He utilized that system at SFA to produce a top 20 defense. But he should've made adjustments here faster.
2. He demanded a top 10 salary without earning it. Then he bolted when we refused to pay it.

I was really excited about Coach Underwood. He did a great job turning this program around and producing a positive energy moving forward. We don't really know how good or bad he was though, because he didn't get a chance to coach a roster full of his own players. Coach Holder made a business decision I support. You shouldn't pay a top 10 salary to an unproven coach. We're in a significantly better position than we were a year ago. We need to go out and find a proven coach to replace BU and keep the positive momentum of this program moving forward.
Who are you that Underwood would reply to your emails?