Shooting mystery: Miami-Dade teen killed by a crime watch captain

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Epperley28

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I ask my liberal and Democrat friends out there a few simple questions regarding this case and I hope the "the anti-war party of peace" can clarify some things for me:

1. Where did the racism twist come in? Seems to be something pushed by Sharpton, Jackson, and the left only. I never heard anyone on the right saying anything about this case was racist. And, no, it wasn't the media that were the first to imply this. As a matter of fact, MSNBC was immediately stating after the story went National that "right wing radio" was to blame for it and painted Zimmerman as a "Tea Party" gun toting Rush Limbaugh listener (when he is in fact a Hispanic registered as a Democrat that likely voted for Obama).

2. Why are there so many death threats to Zimmerman and the Judge all over twitter and other places? Does your side not believe in letting this be settled in court? If Zimmerman is found innocent, will your side let it go?

3. If you said they would not let it go on #2 (assuming he is found not guilty) - does that mean the left advocates vigilante street justice against Zimmerman?
1. It makes for a better story, and you kind of contradicted yourself there (see bold).

2. People are idiots, regardless of political affiliation.

3. See #2. I tried but they actually won't let me make decisions about behavior for every single Democrat in the country. Something about personal freedoms and what-not. :rolleyes:

The one thing I will say about all of these questions is that they are merely symptoms of much greater racial strife in this country. If the playing field was level and opportunity/justice treated all races equally, then we could actually move beyond race and look at situations like this based purely on merit. If he's found not guilty and there are riots, people aren't going to be rioting because of the injustice given to that little boy. They'll be rioting and looting because they've been treated unfairly for the entirety of their existence and they're pissed off about it. Trayvon is merely the straw that broke the camel's back, just like Stacey Koon.
 

ScooberJake

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What did Zimmerman do to make sure no one was around to tell the story?

From the time Zimmerman first called 911 until the fight started 25 minutes had passed.
He shot and killed the only other person who knew what really happened. Interesting fact about the time though, I hadn't heard that.

I ask my liberal and Democrat friends out there a few simple questions regarding this case and I hope the "the anti-war party of peace" can clarify some things for me:

1. Where did the racism twist come in? Seems to be something pushed by Sharpton, Jackson, and the left only. I never heard anyone on the right saying anything about this case was racist. And, no, it wasn't the media that were the first to imply this. As a matter of fact, MSNBC was immediately stating after the story went National that "right wing radio" was to blame for it and painted Zimmerman as a "Tea Party" gun toting Rush Limbaugh listener (when he is in fact a Hispanic registered as a Democrat that likely voted for Obama).

2. Why are there so many death threats to Zimmerman and the Judge all over twitter and other places? Does your side not believe in letting this be settled in court? If Zimmerman is found innocent, will your side let it go?

3. If you said they would not let it go on #2 (assuming he is found not guilty) - does that mean the left advocates vigilante street justice against Zimmerman?
Since I consider myself a left-leaning moderate, I'll play.

1. The racism issue comes from that fact that a black kid was shot by a white/hispanic man, but the shooter was not arrested and it appeared he may not even be charged. Although that issue has been rectified, it opened up a can of worms. And of course there are people out there who want to stir that pot further.

2. Anyone giving death threats to Zimmerman or the judge is not on my side. You seem to think there are only two sides to this issue. That's a pretty narrow and naive view, IMO.

3. Are you trying to have a real conversation here or just puff yourself up? I do not advocate vigilante street justice. And I don't think the mainline "left" does either, regardless of what certain individuals may choose to do.
 
Mar 3, 2004
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The one thing I will say about all of these questions is that they are merely symptoms of much greater racial strife in this country. If the playing field was level and opportunity/justice treated all races equally, then we could actually move beyond race and look at situations like this based purely on merit. If he's found not guilty and there are riots, people aren't going to be rioting because of the injustice given to that little boy. They'll be rioting and looting because they've been treated unfairly for the entirety of their existence and they're pissed off about it. Trayvon is merely the straw that broke the camel's back, just like Stacey Koon.
If someone tells you you're being abused then uses slanted facts to prove their point, I might just believe them...

Many blacks today haven't seen any worse real racism today than anyone else in culture. But they've been treated as some charity project so they believe what you tell them...
 

Epperley28

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If someone tells you you're being abused then uses slanted facts to prove their point, I might just believe them...

Many blacks today haven't seen any worse real racism today than anyone else in culture. But they've been treated as some charity project so they believe what you tell them...
I don't deny that the culture of victimhood has a very real and very negative impact. It stirs the pot and only makes things worse. That doesn't change the fact that their unemployment is double ours and their incarceration rates are six times that of whites. Whether through overt racism or inadvertent systemic limitations, and I tend to think it's more of the latter these days, they aren't getting the same deal as white people in America.



 
Mar 3, 2004
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I don't deny that the culture of victimhood has a very real and very negative impact. It stirs the pot and only makes things worse. That doesn't change the fact that their unemployment is double ours and their incarceration rates are six times that of whites. Whether through overt racism or inadvertent systemic limitations, and I tend to think it's more of the latter these days, they aren't getting the same deal as white people in America.



There are some legitimate concerns. And you point to good stats, there are just so many factors. The high use of marijuana, the lack of parents in the home, the lack of job skills, etc.

If you look at a comparative analysis based off skill levels, black/white unemployment is closer than the overall numbers. There are definitely things that need to be done, but it comes down to a culture issue. Until the culture changes, the same plague will continue on and it is very hard to even address the issues.
 

SiggyPoke

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With all due respect, that's BS. We have Herman Cain who has obviously had success and then lets not forget the most powerful person in the world that happens to be half black and ran on the black ticket. The issue is a great deal deeper than black people simply getting shut down by 'the man'.

I don't deny that the culture of victimhood has a very real and very negative impact. It stirs the pot and only makes things worse. That doesn't change the fact that their unemployment is double ours and their incarceration rates are six times that of whites. Whether through overt racism or inadvertent systemic limitations, and I tend to think it's more of the latter these days, they aren't getting the same deal as white people in America.



 

Epperley28

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With all due respect, that's BS. We have Herman Cain who has obviously had success and then lets not forget the most powerful person in the world that happens to be half black and ran on the black ticket. The issue is a great deal deeper than black people simply getting shut down by 'the man'.
The exception proves the rule?

And I agree that there are many larger issues. I don't think "the man" is shutting down black people. I think it's an entire system that's part good old boy network, part culture of victimhood, part lack of infrastructure, part opportunistic politicians taking advantage, part racial stereotypes, and a bunch of other parts I can't think of right now. Just because it's a complicated mess doesn't mean they aren't getting the shaft.
 

SiggyPoke

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I agree with you on most points, but believe many people (black, white, pink, yellow, orange and brown) go through very difficult times. It's what we choose to do about it that defines us. If I were to lose my job and struggle finding another one, I wouldn't sit on my ass and ask the government for help. The economy is struggling right now, yes. But McDonalds and Burger King are usually always hiring and I'd do whatever job I needed to bring money in to pay the bills. I may not like it, but I'd do it.

The exception proves the rule?

And I agree that there are many larger issues. I don't think "the man" is shutting down black people. I think it's an entire system that's part good old boy network, part culture of victimhood, part lack of infrastructure, part opportunistic politicians taking advantage, part racial stereotypes, and a bunch of other parts I can't think of right now. Just because it's a complicated mess doesn't mean they aren't getting the shaft.
 
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I agree with you on most points, but believe many people (black, white, pink, yellow, orange and brown) go through very difficult times. It's what we choose to do about it that defines us. If I were to lose my job and struggle finding another one, I wouldn't sit on my ass and ask the government for help. The economy is struggling right now, yes. But McDonalds and Burger King are usually always hiring and I'd do whatever job I needed to bring money in to pay the bills. I may not like it, but I'd do it.
It's also a great deal how things are framed.

A white man loses his job... just tough on his luck
A black man loses his job... part of the racial profile issues

I think it goes back to the videos posted on here a while back talking about "discrepancy" in pay for women. When you compare exact same segments(35, married, worked for 15 years solid), you see similar numbers. But because of issues that linger from the in past, you still differences overall because there are less African Americans than whites proportionately at that level. Then more complexity is added when look at the cultural differences.

A little story.... My parents help out a group of high school age black boys. These kids are mainly in single parent homes, with the other parent incarcerated or not in contact. They struggle in school, and my parents are constantly on the kids. My parents are always talking about how they can't believe the kid did this or that... but then you get a reality check and see where they came from. The growth these kids have had between middle school and high school is something you don't see. Yet, even with that growth, they still aren't to the point that a middle age white kid is at at graduation. But what the blacks kids have accomplished is far more impressive, and all it took was one good role model.

Now they're headed to college. They can't pay for it, so they have to apply for loans. But with no parents pushing them to do it, the paperwork is overwhelming for these kids.That's all culture, and it's sad, because if 2 out of the 5 even make it through college it will be a success. But you have to be proud of them for all they've done.

These are pure cultural issues. We can't have the government raise these kids, parents have to raise these kids. They need good influences, they need adults that will be their guidance. Most of the time you have single parents white kids turn out alright because you have other families around. There is still an opportunity to see a role model even from a distance. But with this group of poor black boys, they didn't have that until my parents stepped in. And I've framed this as a white/black discussion, but there are white kids in these same apartments the black kids are living in... having the same struggles these black boys are... they just aren't part of the "group" and will never get the "help" these black boys had.

I don't know what the government can do to change this, as I think it all stems from this cultural disparity.
 

Cimarron

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It's also a great deal how things are framed.

A white man loses his job... just tough on his luck
A black man loses his job... part of the racial profile issues

I think it goes back to the videos posted on here a while back talking about "discrepancy" in pay for women. When you compare exact same segments(35, married, worked for 15 years solid), you see similar numbers. But because of issues that linger from the in past, you still differences overall because there are less African Americans than whites proportionately at that level. Then more complexity is added when look at the cultural differences.
I heard the other day from a reliable source in passing that among new college graduates women are making more than men.
 

RxCowboy

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That doesn't change the fact that their unemployment is double ours and their incarceration rates are six times that of whites. Whether through overt racism or inadvertent systemic limitations, and I tend to think it's more of the latter these days, they aren't getting the same deal as white people in America.
Why are those the only possibilities? Are African Americans being jailed for crimes they did not commit?
 
Nov 16, 2004
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He shot and killed the only other person who knew what really happened. Interesting fact about the time though, I hadn't heard that.



Since I consider myself a left-leaning moderate, I'll play.

1. The racism issue comes from that fact that a black kid was shot by a white/hispanic man, but the shooter was not arrested and it appeared he may not even be charged. Although that issue has been rectified, it opened up a can of worms. And of course there are people out there who want to stir that pot further.

2. Anyone giving death threats to Zimmerman or the judge is not on my side. You seem to think there are only two sides to this issue. That's a pretty narrow and naive view, IMO.

3. Are you trying to have a real conversation here or just puff yourself up? I do not advocate vigilante street justice. And I don't think the mainline "left" does either, regardless of what certain individuals may choose to do.
1. What is a white/hispanic? Is Obama a white/black? Race wasn't an issue until Obama's advisor Al Sharpton showed up on the scene. Are you trying to say Zimmerman shot him because he was black?

2. When Democrat Congressmen are discussing and putting on stunts in front of Congress in hoodies - I would say there are only two sides. Or maybe you fail to realize your party is ran by liberal extremists? (Obama case in point)

3. I'm pointing out #2. The Democrat party has been taken over by liberal extremism and they are very violent. Pull your head out of the sand and realize this fact. Obama is a liberal extremist. He even said the kid looked like his own son to stoke the fire of racism.

The Democrats out there with a brain (they do exist) had better wake up and realize that your party is ran by extremists. Stop towing your party line when you know it is wrong. The only reason any of you are involved or "outraged" by any of this is because Obama and your party told you to be.
 

RxCowboy

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Since I consider myself a left-leaning moderate, I'll play.

1. The racism issue comes from that fact that a black kid was shot by a white/hispanic man, but the shooter was not arrested and it appeared he may not even be charged.
He *was* arrested. We have all seen the video of him in custody in handcuffs. The top of his head in that video has been endlessly scrutinized. He was interrogated and released. The police took his gun from him though it was later returned.
 
Nov 16, 2004
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Moore
He *was* arrested. We have all seen the video of him in custody in handcuffs. The top of his head in that video has been endlessly scrutinized. He was interrogated and released. The police took his gun from him though it was later returned.
Interrogated for 6 hours no less - then released.
 

ScooberJake

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1. What is a white/hispanic? Is Obama a white/black? Race wasn't an issue until Obama's advisor Al Sharpton showed up on the scene. Are you trying to say Zimmerman shot him because he was black?

2. When Democrat Congressmen are discussing and putting on stunts in front of Congress in hoodies - I would say there are only two sides. Or maybe you fail to realize your party is ran by liberal extremists? (Obama case in point)

3. I'm pointing out #2. The Democrat party has been taken over by liberal extremism and they are very violent. Pull your head out of the sand and realize this fact. Obama is a liberal extremist. He even said the kid looked like his own son to stoke the fire of racism.

The Democrats out there with a brain (they do exist) had better wake up and realize that your party is ran by extremists. Stop towing your party line when you know it is wrong. The only reason any of you are involved or "outraged" by any of this is because Obama and your party told you to be.
1. Zimmerman has self identified as both white and hispanic. Traditionally hispanics have sometimes been classified as white, other times not, depending on the system used. In this case it is not clear whether either classification is entirely correct.

2. Again, it is not MY party. I am a registered independent and my voting record is not heavily favored with either party. Both parties have their extremists. In my experience only extreme-right-wingers label Obama as an extreme leftist. He is far more centrist than a lot of Democrats.

3. Is your tin foil hat fitting a little tight today? You seem far more interested in labeling people and using incendiary language than having an honest discussion. This is exactly what is wrong (IMO) with the political climate in America today.
 
Nov 16, 2004
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1. Zimmerman has self identified as both white and hispanic. Traditionally hispanics have sometimes been classified as white, other times not, depending on the system used. In this case it is not clear whether either classification is entirely correct.

2. Again, it is not MY party. I am a registered independent and my voting record is not heavily favored with either party. Both parties have their extremists. In my experience only extreme-right-wingers label Obama as an extreme leftist. He is far more centrist than a lot of Democrats.

3. Is your tin foil hat fitting a little tight today? You seem far more interested in labeling people and using incendiary language than having an honest discussion. This is exactly what is wrong (IMO) with the political climate in America today.
It would seem the tinfoil hat is worn by you, sir.

You seem to believe that this kid was shot simply because he was black. You also seem to think, without any evidence of such, that Zimmerman is guilty of murder. And, you think that he was released (or not arrested lol) because he is a "white/Hispanic", whatever that is.

I see the right leaning posters all saying let the Courts decide.

I see the left leaning posters screaming racism and being "outraged".

I suggest you go look in the mirror and check your tinfoil hat.