The Biden Administration Thread

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drbwh

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House tried to put a $15 minimum wage into covid relief bill. Senate said no. Now they are going to try to address it in its own bill. This will absolutely crush small business. In the 4 businesses I own, we were chugging along before covid. The last 3-4 months it has all caught up to us. My partner and I have spent our life savings keeping all of our over 100 employees employed. We are teetering on the edge of closing all businesses. All of our employees make at least $10/hour, but 80-90% of them make less than $15/hr. If this happens it will finish us off. This administration is dangerous. How many dollars of this covid bill are actually going to the PEOPLE of the United States? They are pushing all small businesses out of business. That is the plan. There will be nothing but big corporate and government jobs left. There will be the elite and the surfs. Better make a lot of money and become elite or your children will be surfs.


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As a business owner, I can agree. People need to understand that if this happens, small businesses have no choice but to pass the increases off to their customers. We have maintained the same pricing for the last 8 years. Co vid has stressed a lot of businesses so much that sadly, I will have to have a price increase. All of the people I work with make over 15 per hour. If the wage increase happens, my vendors will increase their wages. Ultimately I will get an increase that I will have to pass on to my customers. Crap rolls down hill and at the end of the day consumers are the ones that foot the bill.
I’m trying to figure out why you guys can’t pay your employees a decent wage? $15 isn’t even a lot. It’s still kind of shitty at the end of the day, but it goes further in a place like Oklahoma. Just seems a little weird with the average income being about $20 an hour, and yet you guys , other small businesses can barely survive paying your employees half of that. I mean, what kind of uneducated unqualified Gumps can you get with this low pay rate? And how can small businesses in Australia survive paying $19/hr? Because while the cost of living has always been slightly higher there than it is here, it hasn’t grown precipitously like their minimum wage has. I suppose there has to be some number out there, it just seems kind of arbitrary that you can afford $10 an hour, but she can’t afford let’s say $13. I mean, I guess it depends on how much you pocket at the end of the year. Maybe instead of 150,000, you only keep 100,000. That way you don’t have to take it out of your customers pockets, and your employees are happier and more loyal, and you can be more picky about the quality of person you employ.
I don’t know the answer to those things. What I do know is that we pay a competitive wage for the positions we have. We have fairly good retention and moral is good. Other than that, you would have to ask the economist. I also know, that we probably should have let a lot of people go, but we didn’t feel right doing that. If we thought a $15/hr minimum wage was coming we probably would have. I am not sure where your numbers come from, but in Oklahoma the mean annual income per HOUSEHOLD is 52k per year. What we pay would be exactly that for 2 workers per home. These are low skill positions. We do have licensed professionals that make much higher than that, but I am not including them in this conversation. If we added them our mean average would be much more to your liking. I could have made us sound much better but that was not my intention here. I was speaking about real life.


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drbwh

Federal Marshal
Sep 20, 2006
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I’m trying to figure out why you guys can’t pay your employees a decent wage? $15 isn’t even a lot. It’s still kind of shitty at the end of the day, but it goes further in a place like Oklahoma. Just seems a little weird with the average income being about $20 an hour, and yet you guys , other small businesses can barely survive paying your employees half of that. I mean, what kind of uneducated unqualified Gumps can you get with this low pay rate? And how can small businesses in Australia survive paying $19/hr? Because while the cost of living has always been slightly higher there than it is here, it hasn’t grown precipitously like their minimum wage has. I suppose there has to be some number out there, it just seems kind of arbitrary that you can afford $10 an hour, but she can’t afford let’s say $13. I mean, I guess it depends on how much you pocket at the end of the year. Maybe instead of 150,000, you only keep 100,000. That way you don’t have to take it out of your customers pockets, and your employees are happier and more loyal, and you can be more picky about the quality of person you employ.
Wow, your clueless. I would bet that if you asked most small business owners, a vast majority are not even taking salaries or severely reduced salaries. Yet we still have to pay all the costs for the business. FYI, I took my first paycheck in 4 months this week. I am also the business owner that assumes all the risk. I simply cannot quit my job to find another.

If you don't have competitors in the market, the customer will pay a hell of a lot more. Do you even know what market rate is for jobs?

That sure is nice of you to look down your nose at people just trying to survive. Do you even realize how many people that you insulted?
Yep, we have literally spent our life savings keeping people employee over the last year and his response is why can’t we pay MORE. I am almost 50 and looking at starting over. We were doing great before covid hit. We also give quarterly profit sharing to ALL our employees when there is profit. You just have to shake your head sometimes.


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Sep 3, 2010
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Yep, we have literally spent our life savings keeping people employee over the last year and his response is why can’t we pay MORE. I am almost 50 and looking at starting over. We were doing great before covid hit. We also give quarterly profit sharing to ALL our employees when there is profit. You just have to shake your head sometimes.


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What I think would be a great idea is for the government to get the hell out of the way and let the free market decide who gets hired and what they get paid.https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-many-jobs-will-the-stimulus-kill-11614295867
 
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Midnight Toker

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May 28, 2010
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I’m trying to figure out why you guys can’t pay your employees a decent wage? $15 isn’t even a lot. It’s still kind of shitty at the end of the day, but it goes further in a place like Oklahoma. Just seems a little weird with the average income being about $20 an hour, and yet you guys , other small businesses can barely survive paying your employees half of that. I mean, what kind of uneducated unqualified Gumps can you get with this low pay rate? And how can small businesses in Australia survive paying $19/hr? Because while the cost of living has always been slightly higher there than it is here, it hasn’t grown precipitously like their minimum wage has. I suppose there has to be some number out there, it just seems kind of arbitrary that you can afford $10 an hour, but she can’t afford let’s say $13. I mean, I guess it depends on how much you pocket at the end of the year. Maybe instead of 150,000, you only keep 100,000. That way you don’t have to take it out of your customers pockets, and your employees are happier and more loyal, and you can be more picky about the quality of person you employ.
Wow, your clueless. I would bet that if you asked most small business owners, a vast majority are not even taking salaries or severely reduced salaries. Yet we still have to pay all the costs for the business. FYI, I took my first paycheck in 4 months this week. I am also the business owner that assumes all the risk. I simply cannot quit my job to find another.

If you don't have competitors in the market, the customer will pay a hell of a lot more. Do you even know what market rate is for jobs?

That sure is nice of you to look down your nose at people just trying to survive. Do you even realize how many people that you insulted?
Yup, owning a business is tough. It is not for everyone. Especially for those who can’t afford to pay their employees well.
 

Midnight Toker

Territorial Marshal
May 28, 2010
9,208
1,806
1,743
House tried to put a $15 minimum wage into covid relief bill. Senate said no. Now they are going to try to address it in its own bill. This will absolutely crush small business. In the 4 businesses I own, we were chugging along before covid. The last 3-4 months it has all caught up to us. My partner and I have spent our life savings keeping all of our over 100 employees employed. We are teetering on the edge of closing all businesses. All of our employees make at least $10/hour, but 80-90% of them make less than $15/hr. If this happens it will finish us off. This administration is dangerous. How many dollars of this covid bill are actually going to the PEOPLE of the United States? They are pushing all small businesses out of business. That is the plan. There will be nothing but big corporate and government jobs left. There will be the elite and the surfs. Better make a lot of money and become elite or your children will be surfs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As a business owner, I can agree. People need to understand that if this happens, small businesses have no choice but to pass the increases off to their customers. We have maintained the same pricing for the last 8 years. Co vid has stressed a lot of businesses so much that sadly, I will have to have a price increase. All of the people I work with make over 15 per hour. If the wage increase happens, my vendors will increase their wages. Ultimately I will get an increase that I will have to pass on to my customers. Crap rolls down hill and at the end of the day consumers are the ones that foot the bill.
I’m trying to figure out why you guys can’t pay your employees a decent wage? $15 isn’t even a lot. It’s still kind of shitty at the end of the day, but it goes further in a place like Oklahoma. Just seems a little weird with the average income being about $20 an hour, and yet you guys , other small businesses can barely survive paying your employees half of that. I mean, what kind of uneducated unqualified Gumps can you get with this low pay rate? And how can small businesses in Australia survive paying $19/hr? Because while the cost of living has always been slightly higher there than it is here, it hasn’t grown precipitously like their minimum wage has. I suppose there has to be some number out there, it just seems kind of arbitrary that you can afford $10 an hour, but she can’t afford let’s say $13. I mean, I guess it depends on how much you pocket at the end of the year. Maybe instead of 150,000, you only keep 100,000. That way you don’t have to take it out of your customers pockets, and your employees are happier and more loyal, and you can be more picky about the quality of person you employ.
I don’t know the answer to those things. What I do know is that we pay a competitive wage for the positions we have. We have fairly good retention and moral is good. Other than that, you would have to ask the economist. I also know, that we probably should have let a lot of people go, but we didn’t feel right doing that. If we thought a $15/hr minimum wage was coming we probably would have. I am not sure where your numbers come from, but in Oklahoma the mean annual income per HOUSEHOLD is 52k per year. What we pay would be exactly that for 2 workers per home. These are low skill positions. We do have licensed professionals that make much higher than that, but I am not including them in this conversation. If we added them our mean average would be much more to your liking. I could have made us sound much better but that was not my intention here. I was speaking about real life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
House tried to put a $15 minimum wage into covid relief bill. Senate said no. Now they are going to try to address it in its own bill. This will absolutely crush small business. In the 4 businesses I own, we were chugging along before covid. The last 3-4 months it has all caught up to us. My partner and I have spent our life savings keeping all of our over 100 employees employed. We are teetering on the edge of closing all businesses. All of our employees make at least $10/hour, but 80-90% of them make less than $15/hr. If this happens it will finish us off. This administration is dangerous. How many dollars of this covid bill are actually going to the PEOPLE of the United States? They are pushing all small businesses out of business. That is the plan. There will be nothing but big corporate and government jobs left. There will be the elite and the surfs. Better make a lot of money and become elite or your children will be surfs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As a business owner, I can agree. People need to understand that if this happens, small businesses have no choice but to pass the increases off to their customers. We have maintained the same pricing for the last 8 years. Co vid has stressed a lot of businesses so much that sadly, I will have to have a price increase. All of the people I work with make over 15 per hour. If the wage increase happens, my vendors will increase their wages. Ultimately I will get an increase that I will have to pass on to my customers. Crap rolls down hill and at the end of the day consumers are the ones that foot the bill.
I’m trying to figure out why you guys can’t pay your employees a decent wage? $15 isn’t even a lot. It’s still kind of shitty at the end of the day, but it goes further in a place like Oklahoma. Just seems a little weird with the average income being about $20 an hour, and yet you guys , other small businesses can barely survive paying your employees half of that. I mean, what kind of uneducated unqualified Gumps can you get with this low pay rate? And how can small businesses in Australia survive paying $19/hr? Because while the cost of living has always been slightly higher there than it is here, it hasn’t grown precipitously like their minimum wage has. I suppose there has to be some number out there, it just seems kind of arbitrary that you can afford $10 an hour, but she can’t afford let’s say $13. I mean, I guess it depends on how much you pocket at the end of the year. Maybe instead of 150,000, you only keep 100,000. That way you don’t have to take it out of your customers pockets, and your employees are happier and more loyal, and you can be more picky about the quality of person you employ.
I don’t know the answer to those things. What I do know is that we pay a competitive wage for the positions we have. We have fairly good retention and moral is good. Other than that, you would have to ask the economist. I also know, that we probably should have let a lot of people go, but we didn’t feel right doing that. If we thought a $15/hr minimum wage was coming we probably would have. I am not sure where your numbers come from, but in Oklahoma the mean annual income per HOUSEHOLD is 52k per year. What we pay would be exactly that for 2 workers per home. These are low skill positions. We do have licensed professionals that make much higher than that, but I am not including them in this conversation. If we added them our mean average would be much more to your liking. I could have made us sound much better but that was not my intention here. I was speaking about real life.


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I don’t care about the average household income. I’m talking about the average income for Jim, and Susie and Bill and everybody else. That is less than the average household income. Other countries address this issue in a better way. And this is the greatest richest most capable country in the world and I am rather unimpressed on our efforts in some areas. This is one of them.

I find nothing wrong with a simple concept. And that concept can be the minimum wage for someone with a full time job should be no less than 50% of average individual income. If the average is $20 per hour, the minimum wage should be no less than $10 per hour.

When compared to the rest of the world, the United States isn’t even in the top 10.

I am even open to other ideas like having a minimum wage for people under the age of 21 being different for people who are in their 40s. Having a minimum wage vary by sector of work. Such as they do in some other places. Minimum wage for plumbers and electricians versus teachers and garbage men.

There are always examples in other countries that prove how much better we can do.
 
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Mar 11, 2006
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I find nothing wrong with a simple concept. And that concept can be the minimum wage for someone with a full time job should be no less than 50% of average individual income. If the average is $20 per hour, the minimum wage should be no less than $10 per hour.
.
I think you are destroying your own argument. The average individual income in Oklahoma is $28,422. The median individual income is $29,666. That equates to 14.26/hour.

So your policy would result in a minimum wage of $7.13/hour (which is pretty close to the current minimum wage).
 

Midnight Toker

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May 28, 2010
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I find nothing wrong with a simple concept. And that concept can be the minimum wage for someone with a full time job should be no less than 50% of average individual income. If the average is $20 per hour, the minimum wage should be no less than $10 per hour.
.
I think you are destroying your own argument. The average individual income in Oklahoma is $28,422. The median individual income is $29,666. That equates to 14.26/hour.

So your policy would result in a minimum wage of $7.13/hour (which is pretty close to the current minimum wage).
I was just throwing numbers out there, I’m trying to present a concept. And if you want to actually crunch numbers, we can. The US median individual income is around $43,000. This is for a full-time worker. So this would mean no one full timer should make less than 21,500 per year. That’s a $10.33 per hour mimimim. Which is still pretty paltry.
 

cowboyinexile

Have some class
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Minimum wage should be a state or regional decision.

I'm ok with federal efforts to boost pay for people that need it, but what someone living in San Francisco and someone living in rural Mississippi needs to get by on are two different numbers.

I think we need to define minimum wage and living wage and it needs to be age based. My first job was at a local grocery store and my coworkers ranged from kids my age to people in their early 20's starting out on their own to people who had kids I went to school with. My job was good enough for me to put gas in my truck and buy weekend refreshments but for the 23 year old with rent and utilities or someone with kids it wouldn't have gone very far. I remember some resentment against people on welfare who ate better than the person who was scanning their groceries and I didn't understand why at the time but I get it now.
 

Midnight Toker

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May 28, 2010
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Minimum wage should be a state or regional decision.

I'm ok with federal efforts to boost pay for people that need it, but what someone living in San Francisco and someone living in rural Mississippi needs to get by on are two different numbers.

I think we need to define minimum wage and living wage and it needs to be age based. My first job was at a local grocery store and my coworkers ranged from kids my age to people in their early 20's starting out on their own to people who had kids I went to school with. My job was good enough for me to put gas in my truck and buy weekend refreshments but for the 23 year old with rent and utilities or someone with kids it wouldn't have gone very far. I remember some resentment against people on welfare who ate better than the person who was scanning their groceries and I didn't understand why at the time but I get it now.
That’s what they do in Australia. There’s a progression of minimum-wage from 18 to 21
 

cowboyinexile

Have some class
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That’s what they do in Australia. There’s a progression of minimum-wage from 18 to 21
@steross said his kid lost a job there because of his age and I tried to touch on that problem in my post but I wasn't sure how to.

I don't think we should create a situation where adults lose low wage jobs because they can be replaced by a 16 year old. Plus I had a coworker who was special needs. He has been doing the same thing for 25 years and the town loves him. I don't know that he would understand that his job is no longer there because of his age and I could see a bunch of people in my hometown getting really pissed because $5/hr was enough for him to lose his job.

So I think it's a great concept and I'd support it but there are intricacies that need to get figured out.
 
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In the words of Thomas Sowell “The real minimum wage is always zero “. I’ve got a couple extra employees right now. At $15 per hour somebody is going to have to go. Most of us are living in the real world. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-many-jobs-will-the-stimulus-kill-11614295867
Plus the fact , when you raise the wage. Who do you think will take your order at McDonalds? It will be automated. This will happen in a lot of industries and unemployment will rise. Soon we will have lost so much of our tax base, that you will be paying more in taxes than you take home.
 

cowboyinexile

Have some class
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Plus the fact , when you raise the wage. Who do you think will take your order at McDonalds? It will be automated. This will happen in a lot of industries and unemployment will rise. Soon we will have lost so much of our tax base, that you will be paying more in taxes than you take home.
It already is without an increase in minimum wage though. Self check out at Wal Mart is pretty common. The McDonald's where I live had a self order station pre pandemic. At my Subway the drive through has a touch screen. A lot of automation is going to or already has happened regardless of what employers pay their workers.
 

Donnyboy

Lettin' the high times carry the low....
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It already is without an increase in minimum wage though. Self check out at Wal Mart is pretty common. The McDonald's where I live had a self order station pre pandemic. At my Subway the drive through has a touch screen. A lot of automation is going to or already has happened regardless of what employers pay their workers.
Agreed but why cut the ROI on it in half if we want people employed
 

Midnight Toker

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That’s what they do in Australia. There’s a progression of minimum-wage from 18 to 21
@steross said his kid lost a job there because of his age and I tried to touch on that problem in my post but I wasn't sure how to.

I don't think we should create a situation where adults lose low wage jobs because they can be replaced by a 16 year old. Plus I had a coworker who was special needs. He has been doing the same thing for 25 years and the town loves him. I don't know that he would understand that his job is no longer there because of his age and I could see a bunch of people in my hometown getting really pissed because $5/hr was enough for him to lose his job.

So I think it's a great concept and I'd support it but there are intricacies that need to get figured out.
It’s the sort of thing happens all the time in the US. It just generally happens at higher salary levels. People who make a lot of money are often replaced by two people who make half with that one person made. If you choose to fire people over the age of 21 whose minimum wage is too high, and you replace them with 16-year-olds that you can afford, your business might not survive very long. There’s a difference in the quality of work you can expect from a typical 16-year-old who doesn’t really need the job versus a 25 year-old who probably really does.

Well this practice does occasionally happen, it’s not an incredible problem over there. I’m simply showing you that there are other countries that exist in the world, and they do things differently, and sometimes better. And there’s no shame in learning from the better example of others. While I do believe in American exceptionalism, we are not the best at everything.
 

Midnight Toker

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In the words of Thomas Sowell “The real minimum wage is always zero “. I’ve got a couple extra employees right now. At $15 per hour somebody is going to have to go. Most of us are living in the real world. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-many-jobs-will-the-stimulus-kill-11614295867
Plus the fact , when you raise the wage. Who do you think will take your order at McDonalds? It will be automated. This will happen in a lot of industries and unemployment will rise. Soon we will have lost so much of our tax base, that you will be paying more in taxes than you take home.
McDonald’s and other fast food restaurants have been doing this for years. I used it 10 years ago in California. Automation is here. And that’s a whole Other issue and a whole other bag of worms that no politicians are even trying to talk about right now except for Andrew Yang.

Good news is that if you are only skilled to work in fast food, then the sky is the limit, you have plenty of room to grow into a more skilled worker in another field of work. Some jobs disappear, new jobs get created. The role I work in didn’t exist 20 years ago.
 
Sep 6, 2012
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It’s the sort of thing happens all the time in the US. It just generally happens at higher salary levels. People who make a lot of money are often replaced by two people who make half with that one person made.
In the corporate world this is so wrong. I ran two states for a fortune 100 company. How did I get to run Oklahoma and Arkansas? Its simple, there was a RIF. The ivory tower in Houston reorganized but lost 0 employees. Some were shuffled to other positions and the people that suddenly had their boss in their position. That shuffle happened all the way to the field, while all the corp employees kept their same salary. I kept my same salary as well and picked up another state to run (Arkansas). I had to RIF employees below me in Arkansas and Oklahoma. Some had to pull the same double duty that I did. All the losses were ultimately in the field , where all the money is made.