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Wrestling vs Iowa

Discussion in 'OSU Sports Forum' started by Jostate, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Stilly Vanilly

    Stilly Vanilly Greenhorn

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    It seems to me that they don't expect a drop in attendance, due to the nature of the match, so they can charge more for people who don't have season tickets. It seems to be similar to the season ticket approach to football games (however, instead of not selling tickets, they just charge more).
     
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  2. Class of 1970

    Class of 1970 Cowboy

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    You have raised a really important point about lack of marketing OSU wrestling which I have complained about on Orange Power for the past few years. I think it is time for those of us who are upset about this to fire off some emails to Mike Holder. If he was wise he would try to get J Robinson to be a consultant for marketing since J was great at that. It is obvious that no one on campus knows how to market this sport and the low attendance reflects this. When I was a student wrestling here was a major sport in terms of popularity. I don't know what happened to the fan base since the quality of wrestling has not gone down except for the period of time when Tommy Chesbro just could not win another NCAA championship even though he had some great dual meet teams. Shouldn't John Smith be having a pow wow with Mike Holder about the lousy attendance? I don't think it is the ticket prices that is the problem. I think the students don't care about the sport. When I see a video of a match and the camera pans the crowd I see mainly families and old people but few students.
     
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  3. Class of 1970

    Class of 1970 Cowboy

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    I just fired off a polite email to Mike Holder asking him if has any thoughts he would care to share about why the attendance is so low for wrestling matches and if he has considered asking J Robinson for some tips about marketing wrestling. I invite other wrestling fans to also bring this issue to the attention of Mike Holder. In past years he has always replied to my emails. We were in some classes together at OSU and shared a mutual friend then but he did not know me.
     
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  4. Seth25809er

    Seth25809er Sheriff
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    I think what @Stilly Vanilly is saying is correct. There are a lot of people that don't mind the extra $5 for this one and would come whether it's $5 or $15 simply because it's the Iowa dual, so I really don't have too much of an issue with the pricing because ultimately I think it probably makes OSU more money.

    My gripe is more with the fact you just don't seem to see much promotion of it comparative to other nonrevenue sports. I actually think the OSU Wrestling Twitter, Facebook, etc... does a pretty solid job, but for example if you go to the OSU Athletics Facebook, which has a larger # of followers than the specific sports, there are 4-5 things about Women's basketball at. TCU, and nothing about OSU at the Southern Scuffle. They don't need to take anything away from the girls, but could at least make it equitable comparative to them baseball, soccer, etc... and OSU doesn't even seem to do that. Again, I'm going to get off this and start discussing the actual dual in my next post. I don't know that my griping on here will do anything and I'm really excited for this dual regardless of whether or not anyone else is.
     
    #24 Seth25809er, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  5. CTeamPoke

    CTeamPoke Creator of "Dumbest Post in OP History!"
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    My problem is that it's pretty embarrassing that we have the premier program in this sport, and while Iowa and Penn State can consistently put 15k plus in their arenas for their home duals... we barely even expect 5k for our biggest dual of the year against Iowa.
     
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  6. Class of 1970

    Class of 1970 Cowboy

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    Your points are valid but you are right about griping on this blog will not do anything. You and others might accomplish something by emailing Mike Holder directly. I used to work for the largest lobbying group in the U.S. and what got Congress to listen was always big numbers. The more people that make a fuss, the more likely someone starts to take the matter seriously. It's obvious that a lot of readers on this post care about the attendance and lack of marketing for the sport. Let a decision maker know this.
     
  7. #1 Pokes Fan

    #1 Pokes Fan Sheriff

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    I agree with the $5 not being a big deal one way or the other with me but some people who may want to attend and are on a tight budget (especially right after Christmas), for a family of 4, that is $20 more and they simply can not do it. I've been there where $20 made a lot of decisions for me.

    With that being said, I think the biggest drawback right now is the "end of the world, doom and gloom, state crippling ice storm heading our way." That prediction alone will make more people plan on not attending than the $5 increase will. I'm still hoping for a good crowd and a solid victory. I live 100 miles away and am not going to skate to Stillwater but will definitely make the trip if it is safe to do so, regardless of ticket price. :smith::pistol:
     
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  8. Class of 1970

    Class of 1970 Cowboy

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    I have lived in many states but the worse ice storms I have ever seen or heard about seem to happen in Oklahoma each winter. Be careful and make a wise choice.
     
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  9. Takeout Slide

    Takeout Slide Hardcore Troubadour

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    I hate to say this, but I think it's almost an apples and oranges comparison now when it comes to Iowa and OSU and fan support for wrestling. Like you said, it's absurd that this is the case given our history, but it's the reality. I've never quite figured out why, except that there is just an overall greater interest in wrestling at all levels there.

    I lived up there for almost a decade (moved back to OK about 18 months ago), and some of the differences I saw were - wrestling of all levels is on TV quite often, basketball is about on equal footing in HS and college especially in the smaller towns in eastern Iowa, wrestling gets front page coverage in all the papers, etc. That just doesn't happen here. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cedar Rapids Gazette and the Iowa City papers have already had articles about this weekend's duel. Of course, the DOK has had nothing. Similarly, we had the other thread about the Geary Tournament. In Iowa, a tournament like that would be on the evening news and in the papers. I saw next to nothing about it, except online.

    I don't really know how it is that Penn State draws so many given that their history is nowhere near the level of OSU and Iowa.

    But I think all of that goes to the greater point - Iowa gets more, because wrestling has become such an ingrained part of that culture. Yet, you have to start somewhere, and like others have said, it sure doesn't seem like the athletic department goes out of its way to promote the sport. At the same time, I wonder if were not letting the wrestling program itself off the hook a bit. Someone mentioned going and hiring J Robinson as a consultant because he was great at marketing wrestling at Minny (true point). But he wasn't in the marketing department of the AD, he was the coach. He knew wrestling needed to be promoted, so he went and did it. Similar to what Gary Ward did with baseball back in the 80s. Dropping in on classes (ala Underwood) doesn't seem like John Smith's cup of tea, but I guess my point is that I don't see wrestling doing a ton to promote itself.
     
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  10. Westpoint Cowboy

    Westpoint Cowboy Wrangler

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    My wife and I will definitely be in attendance. We are talking with friends from Tulsa about joining us. So far have three coming if the ice doesn't hold them back. May have five or six more to commit after seeing the weather.
     
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  11. CTeamPoke

    CTeamPoke Creator of "Dumbest Post in OP History!"
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    @Takeout Slide to me it almost seems that the years upon years of Oklahoma fans telling Oklahoma State fans that "nobody cares about wrestling" made it a reality.
     
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  12. Seth25809er

    Seth25809er Sheriff
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    They have 3 big things working for them.

    1. Wrestling is a big deal in that state. They've just never had an elite college program til now. They've always had great youth programs and just good wrestling in general. I think there are 4-5 D1 programs in that state and quite a few more small colleges.

    2. The size of the school and state. Big population and big alumni base compared to either OSU or Iowa

    3. They sucked at everything else when Cael came in. Football was in trouble, and they've never been good at basketball. Naturally fans went to their winner which was wrestling and have stuck around since.
     
    #32 Seth25809er, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  13. tfpoke

    tfpoke Cowboy

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    The University hasn't done anything to promote wrestling for many years. I really think John Smith is behind some of it. I think he is focused on the program and just doesn't make it a priority. It's frustrating to watch, but there doesn't seem to be any changes on the horizon. When I was in school back in the late 70's, a group of wrestlers, usually 2 or 3 would come by the frats, sororities, and halls during lunch or dinner and hand out season schedules, posters, and give a little talk about themselves and the wrestling program. With all the social media stuff that's out there now, it's even easier to reach the masses.
     
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  14. Seth25809er

    Seth25809er Sheriff
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    To get back on the subject of the actual dual here's a bit of a breakdown of how the dual could go and some of the matches add up.

    The dual as a whole should be great. There's really probably 6-7 matches that could go either way and every match should be pretty exciting and the whole dual probably comes down to HWT. Currently OSU leads the series, but Iowa's had our # the last few years in dual's, so getting one back this weekend would be great.

    Here we go

    125-For OSU Nick Piccininni vs. Iowa's-Thomas Gillman. Pic's a very talented wrestler, but has definitely looked young so far this year. One of the biggest problem's with wrestler's adjusting from HS to college is learning how to finish shot's. In high school they don't really coach all the "funky" ways to fend off shots they do in college, so if you get in deep on a shot you can usually finish. In college it's different. Pic gets in on shots, but hasn't been able to finish well up to this point. Unfortunately here he's wrestling a SR. with a lot of experience that's tough to score on. Iowa will be favored here and expected to win. If Pic wrestles well he can make it interesting, but I'd expect a loss here. Hope for no bonus and again there's a chance that Pic could hang in tough here and make it interesting. He's talented, just still has some things to learn.

    133-#5 Kaid Brock vs. #1 Cory Clark. Huge match here. I'm extremely excited for this one. Kaid came on the scene with a splash knocking off the defending champ at OU last year, and has only lost one match to the eventual NCAA champ that ended his season last year. This will definitely be his biggest test besides those 2 matches. Clark's a SR. A talented kid who's technically very sound and doesn't make many mistakes. Brock on the other hand wrestle's as wide open as anyone in the country and has no fear of anything. From what I've seen that seems to work against Clark. He wrestles really sound and waits for guys to make mistakes, but doesn't handle pressure well and Brock definitely brings that. It seems like strong kids give Clark fits and I don't know that Brock is strong enough to press through some of his defense, and Clark is really good defensively. Definite contrast of style and I really don't know who will come out with a win here, but this should be great. Huge match for the dual and huge match for NCAA seeding.

    141-Defending champ Heil vs. Carton-Iowa. Should be a comfortable win for Heil here, but he keeps everything close, so I don't see any bonus and there's always a chance for an upset with how close he wrestles guys. Hopefully there's no drama and Heil wins comfortably. Bonus would be great.

    149-#3 ranked Collica vs. #2 Sorensen. Another huge match here that could go either way. Sorensen's the favorite, but Collica's been wrestling as good as anybody on the team and this is the first year Collica's been at a natural weight and not hurt. I really think this is a match that could go either way. I haven't watched enough of Sorensen to know how the styles will match up though I do know Sorensen's had the edge in the series. You could say the same about the kid from Mizzou and Collica's beat him both times they've wrestled this year, so It's a tough call on how this one will go, but it should be fun.

    157-#6 Joe Smith vs. #2. Kemerer. Another great match here based on the ranking, but another guy for Iowa I haven't watched much. Should be a fun one, but I really can't pick either way based on what I've seen so far. Smith I think is struggling a bit with the weight cut and probably doesn't have the gas tank Kemerer has, so if it's close at the end I don't like our chances, but Joe's definitely talented enough to win. If he can get a TD early he could pull it out. Huge match for NCAA seeding.

    165-#6 Rogers vs. unranked Gunther. Definitely OSU's best chance for bonus here, but you never know with Rogers. He's a wide open dude that could pin anybody, but he could also lose matches he shouldn't. He had a great tournament at the scuffle. Here's hoping for more.

    174-#5 Crutchmer vs. #13 Meyer. Crutchmer's another guy that wrestles everyone close. I think he's better than this guy, but you just have to hope he opens up and does the right things to win it. Crutchmer had a pretty good scuffle tournament, but you have to hope it carries on. Big match for him to win. There's basically a bunch of toss-ups or Iowa's favored matches and 3 where OSU's favored. Have to win those 3 to win the dual.

    184-#5 Boyd vs. #6. Brooks. Another toss up here. I believe Boyd lost the last match here, but he finished a lot higher at the NCAA's, so this should be exciting. Boyd's a lot of fun to watch and honestly this Brooks kid is too. This is a big match.

    197-#4 Weigel vs. Wilcke-Iowa.
    This is another chance for bonus IMO. Weigel's good enough on top if he gets anything locked up he could get a bunch of turns and a tech fall. Young kids seem to fall into that trap a little more than others and Weigel's strong enough to impose his will on this kid IMO. If the kid avoids bottom Weigel may not have that chance and it could be closer.

    285-#9 Schafer vs. #5 Stoll-Definitely could come down to this match for the dual. This one will be interesting. Stoll's a big HWT and Schafer just isn't. Will Schafer's speed beat out Stoll's size or vice-versa. Could be a big match for the dual and is definitely a big match for ranking and seeding at the NCAA's.

    Overall should be great and I wouldn't be shocked for it to come down to the wire. Really excited for this.
     
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  15. Takeout Slide

    Takeout Slide Hardcore Troubadour

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    Good rundown! It was certainly fun back in the early 2000s when we routinely crushed Iowa, but I'm glad that the dual has become so competitive again.

    Didn't Collica beat Sorenson over the summer?

    Crutchmer and Boyd feel like must wins.

    I haven't seen Clark wrestle, but if he's in the typical Iowa style (tie up and push your opponent to the edge of the circle), he might be susceptible to Kaid's inside trip (ala Brewer last year). Either way, hopefully, we'll have a ref who dings Iowa if they're just tying up and pushing.
     
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  16. Jostate

    Jostate Federal Marshal
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    Good stuff, I really appreciate the run down. Now I'm going to put you on the spot. What's the final score?
     
  17. Class of 1970

    Class of 1970 Cowboy

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    Correct perception on the above points. Until I moved last year, I had lived in Pennsylvania for 27 years and one of the first things I noticed was just how much press high school wrestling got in the local paper which was York County, where Chance Marstellar is from. A gifted wrestler from York County once told not that long ago that the reason PSU did not have championship wrestling teams was because there are so many colleges in PA that a god wrestler can attend. He said it is unlike Oklahoma where the in state kids are going to either go to OSU or OU so those schools have a lot of great talent. Whereas the talent in PA is spread amongst many good wrestling schools such as Lock Haven, Lehigh, Edinboro, PSU and others. If there PSU was the only in state wrestling program, then they would have a lock on all of that talent. He really made sense. Western PA has always produced some really tough kids as they often came from rugged steel worker families in and around Pittsburgh. Coal mining areas in PA also produce tough kids. Schools in those areas have kept up the winning traditions and developed programs for kids at young ages. I was reading about Chance Marsteller when he was in junior high and sending John Smith newspaper clippings. Silly of me, considering John already knew of him via the internet and other sources. I really enjoyed it a few years ago or so when the OK dream team beat the PA dream team in wrestling. Some people credit all the recent success of PSU to Cale Sanderson being a legend and that has attracted top talent. But John Smith has been quite a legend way before Cael Sanderson became a coach. So there has to be other factors involved in the quick turn around of PSU which is well on its way to establishing quite a dynasty. I am going to ask a former PA wrestler why he thinks PSU is so successful. I will post his opinions. His insights over the years about wrestling have proved to be very accurate.
     
  18. Class of 1970

    Class of 1970 Cowboy

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  19. Class of 1970

    Class of 1970 Cowboy

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    Good breakdown. Overall, it can go either way. But I have to give the nod to PSU since I don't think OSU is wrestling at their peak yet. Especially with Joe Smith just having returned to the lineup. Why did he miss earlier matches? Was it because he just finally was able to make weight, or was he injured? I remember before the season started in an interview John Smith said he was concerned about the weight Joe put on over the summer.
     
  20. Seth25809er

    Seth25809er Sheriff
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    After 125 0-4 Iowa
    133-0-7 Iowa
    141-3-7 Iowa
    149-6-7 Iowa
    157-6-10 Iowa
    165-9-10 Iowa
    174-9-13 Iowa
    184-12-13 Iowa
    197-16-13 OSU
    285-19-13 OSU

    Usually you can do this with a wrestling match and be pretty confident with your picks. I'm not at all on this. Even wrestling writers think there are a bunch of "toss-ups" I'm going with my head on my picks with this, but my gut tells me we win at 133 and 149 both. Personally I felt weird predicting both as wins for OSU though, so I had to put one as a loss and went with the freshman.
     
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